Video: Bruce Fenton on History With Bitcoin

Repeating Bitcoin Price Fall With Ethereum Gain Will Cause Flippening: Bruce Fenton

Repeating Bitcoin Price Fall With Ethereum Gain Will Cause Flippening: Bruce Fenton submitted by Lukovka to btc [link] [comments]

Repeating Bitcoin Price Fall With Ethereum Gain Will Cause Flippening: Bruce Fenton

Repeating Bitcoin Price Fall With Ethereum Gain Will Cause Flippening: Bruce Fenton submitted by Ethereums_AI to ethtrader [link] [comments]

Repeating Bitcoin Price Fall With Ethereum Gain Will Cause Flippening: Bruce Fenton

Repeating Bitcoin Price Fall With Ethereum Gain Will Cause Flippening: Bruce Fenton submitted by CryptoCurrencyNews to CryptoCurrency [link] [comments]

Questions and Answers from OKEx AMA with Tron Black - 2/18/2020

https://twitter.com/OKEx/status/1228212766126661633
The AMA was a huge success! THANK YOU TRON!
If you want to see all the questions that poured in when they opened the AMA up for questions from the audience, here they are: https://pastebin.com/KVpyXmgu The Telegram admins had to temporarily mute the group because there were so many questions flooding in from so many people. A *good problem* to have. :)
Below are all the ANSWERED questions.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected], [18.02.20 05:09]
Here’s question#1:What is your background and how did you come to the idea to create RVN [email protected]

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:12]
Sorry, I was locked out for minute.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:12]
I'm just a tiny part of Ravencoin, and there are some amazing developers (Jeremy, Mark, Cade, and Corbin) that have been brought the new capabilities to mainnet. The core idea of bringing assets to a bitcoin-derived blockchain platform came from Bruce Fenton, a former Executive Director of the Bitcoin Foundation with life-long experience in the traditional finance and stockbroker world. Medici Ventures is allowing some of its developers to contribute to the project. I was fortunate enough to have the right background to help with this project. I have a CS degree, C++ coding skills, economics background, early entrepreneurial success, teaching experience, an MBA, and a burning passion for the crypto-space and how it can change the world for the better.

[email protected], [18.02.20 05:12]
Thanks. Here's question#2: Why did you name the project Raven? What was Raven created to solve? What is the business model of the project?

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:12]
The name came from Bruce Fenton. Ravens are clever birds with a rich history. Ravencoin makes it easy to create and transfer your own asset. There isn’t a business model for the project. It is a gift to the world in the spirit of Bitcoin. Medici Ventures has allowed some of its top developers to contribute time and effort to the project. Medici Ventures does hold some mined RVN, so it may be a win-win.

[email protected], [18.02.20 05:14]
Thank you for answering. Let's move on to the next question# 3. What are the $RVN tokens used for? What gives it value?

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:15]
Thank you for asking.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:15]
The RVN tokens are used to purchase your own token on the Ravencoin platform.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:16]
Those RVN are burned.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:16]
RVN is also used to incentivize the miners to secure the chain.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:16]
RVN is also used for transaction fees for tranferring RVN or user-created (your) assets.

[email protected], [18.02.20 05:17]
Cool. Here's question# 4:In your opinion what is the unique "selling" point, or best feature, of Ravencoin?

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:17]
This is like being asked "who is your favorite child."

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:18]
Except answering it doesn't cost children thousands in therapy so I'll give it a shot.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:18]
The best feature of Ravencoin, with the most unexpected results, has been its linkage to IPFS.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:19]
This was originally done to ensure that meta-dat about a token doesn't get lost like it has on other platforms like Counterparty.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:19]
The linkage to IPFS has RECENTLY been extended to include messaging, and memos.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:20]
You can now include information, even a PDF, or a video clip with every transaction.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:20]
This is powerful, and I can't wait to see how it gets used.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:20]
--------------------

[email protected], [18.02.20 05:20]
Quesiton#5 What are the advantages of using Ravencoin for assets tokenization compared to other blockchain protocols?

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:21]
Wow. Where do I start?

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:21]
First, the meta-data about the token can be recorded via IPFS, so everyone knows what the token represents.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:22]
Second, the token has a unique name which can help with preventing fake tokens, and allows humang readable "root-of-trust" for the token that isn't just 40 characters of hex (ERC-20).

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:22]
There explorers for assets, like: https://ravencoin.asset-explorer.com

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:23]
and https://www.mangofarmassets.com/assetviewer

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:23]
Wallets like RVN Wallet, MangoFarms Wallet, and Zelcore wallet support Ravencoin assets.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:23]
--------------

[email protected], [18.02.20 05:23]
Here's our next question from Twitter# 6: Does being fully community-driven blockchain have its own drawbacks for rvn? You know, voluntarism means no marketing or legal team.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:24]
Yes, oh yes.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:24]
But the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks.

[email protected], [18.02.20 05:24]
[ Photo ]
📣Group is Off Commenting for a while due to AMA. Will allow back when Q&A session later. Kindly be Patience with us. Thank You🥰

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:24]
It is just technology that people choose to use.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:24]
Ravencoin has attracted the right kinds of people, including donated legal help when it was needed.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:25]
The lack of a marketing budget does slow the awareness.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:25]
In some ways this is good, and the demand for RVN isn't reliant on promotion.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:25]
As other projects stop promotion, or run out of marketing funds, they are at risk.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:26]
Ravencoin is just growing slowly and steadily as more people learn about it.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:26]
Consider yourself fortunate to have learned about Ravencoin early.😁

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:26]
---------------

[email protected], [18.02.20 05:27]
Great!!! Here's the next question from Twitter# 7:is it apple to apple if I say that ravencoin is going to disrupt wall street just like bitcoin is disrupting to central banking?

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:28]
At the very least, Ravencoin will help show the way that tokenization can improve capital formation. It is up to others to take advantage of these new tools, technologies, and features.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:28]
It might happen first in countries other than the U.S.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:29]
Look at the story of Blockbuster Video (former leader in video rental), and Netflix (current video streaming leader) to see what might happen in the future. Is Wall Street the new Blockbuster Video?

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:30]
I see similar patterns of arrogance, but only time will tell.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:30]
---------------

[email protected], [18.02.20 05:30]
Here's the next question# 8: How will Ravencoin defend hashrate distribution (algo question) if there are important securities issued on this platform (double spend attack)?

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:31]
Ravencoin doesn't re-org after 60 blocks which helps prevent double-spend attacks -- a feature called NLR.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:31]
Also, something to be aware of is that in most cases tokens are redeemed by an issuer which removes the incentive to double-spend.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:32]
Example: Let's say the token is a share of real-estate. The laws of the jurisdiction for the real-estate would apply when redeeming for dividends, etc.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:33]
Also If the issuer is using the Restricted Assets feature of Ravencoin which have tokens that start with $, then the stolen tokens can be frozen.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:33]
Note: Regular assets (not starting with $) can't be frozen.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:33]
The issuer of the token should specify how redemption is handled.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:33]
--------------

[email protected], [18.02.20 05:34]
Thank you for your detailed answer. and Quesiton#9 How does RVN works? What problem did RVN solve? How do the Tokenomics work?

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:34]
RVN works like BTC, because it is a code fork of BTC.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:34]
RVN lets you create your own tokens in under a minute. It is easy!!!

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:34]
RVN is required to create your own token.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:35]
Heres' the breakdown:

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:35]
500 RVN burned to create a root asset with a unique name. 100 RVN is burned to create a sub-asset (under a root asset). 5 RVN is burned to create a unique asset (NFT). 1000 RVN burned to be a qualifier. 1500 RVN burned to create a Restricted Asset with special superpowers. 0.1 RVN burned to attach a tag to a Ravencoin address. A small amount of RVN is used, but not burned to transfer assets.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:35]
------------

[email protected], [18.02.20 05:35]
Let's move on to the next question#10 Safety and security are always the most important things. So what is the security mechanism of RavenCoin to ensure user assets do not become the target of hackers?

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:36]
Ravencoin has a strong network of miners.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:36]
Most of the original code is from Bitcoin which is probably the most vetted code in the world.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:36]
We have run a bug bounty to hopefully find any flaws before release to mainnet.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:36]
With all that said, there are no guarantees as this is just source code provided for free that folks choose to run.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:37]
If you need absolute assurance, then you should commission an audit of the code. There is no Ravencoin company, just a GitHub repository and a lot of passionate supporters.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:37]
-------------

[email protected], [18.02.20 05:37]
Quesiton#11 Nowaday most investors $RVN simply focus on the price of the token in the short term, and not on the real value of the project. Can you tell us about the motivation and advantages of an investor $RVN in the long term?

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:38]
I can't speak to the motivations of individual investors.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:38]
RVN is a great token with good liquidity (world-wide).

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:38]
RVN is used to incentivize the miners and help protect the Ravencoin asset platform, so it has a use case.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:39]
RVN can be a store-of-value, and a medium-of-exchange.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:39]
One of my favorite things about Ravencoin is that it is tricky to classify, as it has so many uses.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:39]
I love seeing how people build using this technology platform.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:39]
Ravencoin makes new things possible.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:39]
--------------

[email protected], [18.02.20 05:40]
Here's the next question #12 Who are your competitors and how do you intend to thrive amongst them?

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:40]
This may sound strange, but I don't see crypto technologies as competitors.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:41]
The crypto space is tiny compared to the legacy systems we've had for fifty years, so I look at every project as a way to bring new people into crypto-ecosystem.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:41]
If we add value, features, and capabilities, then more people will learn about the Ravencoin platform and what it can do for them.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:41]
The ERC-20 smart contract is an alternative asset issuance option, but Ravencoin is much better for most uses, so more education is needed.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:41]
https://medium.com/@tronblack/ravencoin-better-than-erc-20-88a276d3e434

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:41]
--------------

[email protected], [18.02.20 05:42]
Quesiton#13 What is the uniqueness of the Raven token? Why should investors (including me) invest in Raven?

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:42]
Ravencoin is a platform.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:42]
You should evaluate the capabilities of the Ravencoin platform and ask yourself whether it will be used, and whether it adds value over other platforms like ETH, EOS, or TEZOS.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:42]
Hint: It does. I try not to provide investment advice, so do your own research.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:43]
https://ravencoin.org

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:43]
https://medium.com/@tronblack

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:43]
---------------

[email protected], [18.02.20 05:43]
Quesiton#14 What your plans in place for global expansion, are you focusing on only market at this time? Or focus on building and developing or getting customers and users, or partnerships? Can you explain this?

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:43]
Ravencoin is already a global phenomenon.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:44]
South Korea has been onto Ravencoin for some time now, and I had the opportunity to speak at a South Korean Ravencoin meetup that filled an Art Hall with a waiting list.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:44]
Because of OKEx, that awareness will expand to China.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:44]
Our focus is building and education about Ravencoin.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:44]
There is no marketing budget, and we raised no funds.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:45]
The success so far has been completely organic, and Ravencoin has the best community of any coin, anywhere.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:45]
------------

[email protected], [18.02.20 05:45]
Here is THE LAST question#10 from Twitter before we accept questions from the Telegram chat. what are your hopes with the $RVN listing on u/OKEx Okex going forward?

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:45]
I hope the OKEx $RVN listing brings awareness of Ravencoin to new parts of the world.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:46]
The project is more capable than most people know, and because it was launched without raising any funds, there isn't a marketing budget.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:46]
It is up to smart individuals, like yourselves, to figure out what Ravencoin can do, and use the technology to make new companies and new projects.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:46]
------------------


+++++++++++++++++++++

Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:57]
>>> When is mainnet launch?
January 3, 2018

Tron Black, [18.02.20 06:01]
>>> A project's Technical development may not always be reflected on the price of it's token. What is raven doing specifically to increase price of its token?
I agree. And I think it is especially true in the case of Ravencoin. The true value may not be reflected in the short-term. The Ravencoin project isn't a company. It will take time. There isn't a marketing dept or budget, but through events like these, and podcasts, and blogs, and new projects building on top of Ravencoin, I think the value will eventually be reflected.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 06:06]
>>>> Give me some important reasons why we need to buy RVN token where in fact hundreds of project failed and it went to bankruptcy or even developers run when they collect millions/billions of funds…? Can you explain it to us

Many got burned during the crazy ICO phase of 2017. Ravencoin did not participate. Ravencoin is technology and a passionate community. If I get hit by a bus tomorrow (heaven forbid), the project will continue because it is free, open-source and anyone can carry it on, or contribute, or use it, or copy it. Ravencoin can't go to bankruptcy. It is code, and it doesn't borrow, or or have debt. Some of the core develoepers, myself included, are allowed to work on the project while working for Medici Ventures. This is a great arrangement.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 06:06]
-----------------

Tron Black, [18.02.20 06:10]
>>>> How does RAVENCOIN evaluate the importance of the user community? In the near future, does RAVEN have any special plans to attract and expand the community ?

The Ravencoin community is the most important and valuable part of the project. There are already clones of the code, but not of the passionate, helpful, and dedicated community. We invite you to become a part of it, and help expand it in Asia.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 06:10]
--------------------

Tron Black, [18.02.20 06:13]
>>>>. RVN is regulatory compliant project for assets tokenization in U.S. Meaning that the assets issued in RVN protocol is fine with the U.S authorities.

Ravencoin provides features that help U.S. issuers stay legal under the existing U.S. rules. I've written about how this can be done, but I would always recommend having your plans reviewed by a competent attorney. The U.S. rules are complex, and from a different era.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 06:13]
---------------
Tron Black, [18.02.20 06:18]
>>>> Ravencoin is constantly finding new big partners.Audience is constantly growing.What’s the secret to this growth rate?

A vibrant, and welcoming community. Technology that solves real tokenization problems. Easy-to-use, so anyone can participate. Not launching as an ICO, so it is fair for everyone.

Tron Black, [18.02.20 06:18]
--------------

Tron Black, [18.02.20 06:20]
Thank you everyone for the fantastic questions. I would like to answer every one of them, but it is after 4am and I should get some sleep. I really appreciate all the participation, and I hope your trading on OKEx goes very well for all of you!!!
submitted by __pathfinder__ to Ravencoin [link] [comments]

WizSec: The missing MtGox bitcoins

WizSec: The missing MtGox bitcoins submitted by nikuhodai to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Awwww, are you all O.K.?

Life must be hard right now with all the good news in the Bitcoin space.
What is this weeks argument?
submitted by Essexal to Buttcoin [link] [comments]

Ravencoin usage adoption.

I quote an excerpt from the Ravencoin white paper.
''A young child, in a country that permits it, could create a token that represents a lemonade stand business. Suppose she creates 10,000 LEMONADE tokens. These tokens could be used to raise funds for the lemonade stand at AUD$0.01 per LEMONADE token allowing her to raise AUD$100 to build her business. These tokens can be sold and transferred easily by the owners. Suppose the lemonade stand does extraordinarily well because the neighborhood is invested in this entrepreneurial project. Now our fictional eight-year-old wants to reward those who believed in her project. With one command, she can send profits - denominated in any value RVN may have - to LEMONADE token holders. There could even be new holders of LEMONADE tokens that she’s never met. The built-in ease of use should allow anyone, anywhere in the world to do so on a mobile phone, or computer running Windows, Mac, or Linux. ''
Bruce Fenton Tron Black www.ravencoin.org 3rd April 2018
This example sold Ravencoin to me. There are currently three primary ways to get Ravencoin.
  1. Mine it.
Pro's: You are helping to secure the network by futher distributing the hashrate and you get rewarded with RVN for you contribution.
Cons: Accesibility to hardware (GPU's) and the technical knowledge required to mine succesfully, limits this to a growing but niche group consisting mostly of hodlers.
  1. Buying it:
Pro's: You can get lots quickly and at custom prices.
Con's: Buying crypto from an exchange is an intimidating process for the average person. Most people who are willing to go through the trouble to understand the in's, out's, fees and movements of crypto exchange markets are crypto enthusiasts and speculators.
  1. Earning it:
People who are willing to go all in and say we accept Bitcoin are already on top of the exchange trading game and probably have a mining rig or two running in their basement. So you have to already understand and be sold on the future of crypto to go as far as Overstock and announce it's acceptance of alternate forms of revenue.
Pro's: You are spreading awareness.
Con's: Very few people will actually spend their crypto to buy your services and or products.
There is however one more way to get crypto and that is when you get given it.
Giving Crypto as a gift is one of the best ways to introduce people to the technology. When you give tokens and coins away the recipient is obliged to download a wallet and learn about seed phrases and private keys. Suddenly they are aware of the market value of the assets they hold.
Giving RVN away is the best way to spread interest, awareness and ultimately adoption. The question we enthusiasts have to answer in creative ways is how can we give RVN away profitably.
When that question is answered for each of us in our own personal capacities we as a crypto community would have jumped one of the next biggest hurdles.
How to give RVN away profitably?
I have already answered this question for myself.
How would you answer it?
submitted by Kiwarian to Ravencoin [link] [comments]

I've been learning a bunch about Bitcoin this week. I think this gentleman may clear up some of your apprehension.

I've been learning a bunch about Bitcoin this week. I think this gentleman may clear up some of your apprehension. submitted by ronricosuave to Buttcoin [link] [comments]

Bitcoin for real

In late 2014, years before the recent brouhaha over Coinbase's latest debacle in re. their decision to utilize someone from HT and all the negative implications of that - I stopped using CoinBase and BitPay.
Note: my original post could not be made in cryptocurrency nor in bitcoin until I self-censored by removing explicit proper spelling of Coinbase and Bitpay. This original post used alternative words to circumvent subreddit limitations on posting about these firms. This post has now had the spelling changed to refer to these firms by the proper spelling of their names.
https://np.reddit.com/Bitcoin/comments/2kmpmopen_letter_to_bitcoin_businesses_why_im_closing/
The main reason for me leaving? Coinbase, Bitpay, Bitstamp and a ton of other companies at the time in 2014 openly and explicitly announced their support for the Windhover group's 'Proportionate Enforcement and Risk Based Regulation,' which contained a terrible pill suggesting that all identity - even future identities based solely on bitcoin blockchain, or similar technologies - should be deemed under sole purview and control of governments.
Your identity, of course is regulated and monitored. Any country's passport or state DL is a classic example. But the state no longer has sovereign control and monopoly over money. Why should it for identity either?
This is to speak out against exchanges or brokerages that don't respect our agency and ability to create our own identity. This is a ramble on why we shouldn't use Coinbase, Bitpay, Stamp, or other exchanges that fundamentally have acted against people's best interest, not once or twice but persistently over years.
So what transpired then?
submitted by pcvcolin to CryptoCurrency [link] [comments]

Biicoin for real: a little history of what transpired after ditching the worst exchanges and brokerages

In late 2014, years before the recent brouhaha over Coinbase's latest debacle in re. their decision to utilize someone from HT and all the negative implications of that - I stopped using CoinBase and Bitpay.
(( Old 2014 discussion on this which drew a lot of attention at the time at: https://np.reddit.com/Bitcoin/comments/2kmpmopen_letter_to_bitcoin_businesses_why_im_closing/ ))
The main reason for me leaving? Coinbase, Bitpay, Bitstamp and a ton of other companies at the time in 2014 openly and explicitly announced their support for (by singing on to) the Windhover group's 'Proportionate Enforcement and Risk Based Regulation' concept for the industry, which contained a terrible pill suggesting that all identity - even future identities based solely on bitcoin blockchain, or similar technologies - should be deemed under sole purview and control of governments. You can see details and a link to what this Windhover proposal was at the old 2014 discussion, np link above.
Your identity, of course is regulated and monitored. Any country's passport or state DL is a classic example. But the state no longer has sovereign control and monopoly over money. Why should it for identity either?
This is to speak out against exchanges or brokerages that don't respect our agency and ability to create our own identity. This is a ramble on why we shouldn't use Coinbase, Bitpay, Stamp, or other exchanges that fundamentally have acted against people's best interest, not once or twice but persistently over years.
So what transpired then?
submitted by pcvcolin to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Transcript of Developer Meeting in Discord - April 12, 2019

Tron04/12/2019
Hello everyone.
It's been a good couple of weeks for Ravencoin.
Sorry I missed the last session. I was on vacation.
Jeremy is looking at channel settings. Can anyone else chat?
RavencoinDev (Jesse/Wolfsokta)04/12/2019
Hello Everybody!
Under04/12/2019
Hey Tron! Hey Jesse!
RavencoinDev (Jesse/Wolfsokta)04/12/2019
Hey Under. Thanks for joining us.
Tron04/12/2019
Ok, still locked. Working on it.
Who knows how to open the channel?
Under04/12/2019
@traysi ★★★★★
RavencoinDev (Jesse/Wolfsokta)04/12/2019
Maybe we start with just you running the show Tron? You can translate the blond frog speak...
Tron04/12/2019
We can all chat, but it isn't a community chat. It would just be a speech.
[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs04/12/2019
Seems as though, they thought that the @Core Developer open open the channel, but we can't :frowning:
RavencoinDev (Jesse/Wolfsokta)04/12/2019
Ah, I see.
Tron04/12/2019
Ok, the [pot leaf] means you agree, and the [mushroom] means you disagree. GO!
This is the best.
Much less dissent. :smiley:
Ok, we thought we had the ability to open the channel, but it doesn't seem to be the case. To "thenest"!
traysi ★★★★★04/12/2019
Channel should be open now
bitspill04/12/2019
woot
Hans_Schmidt04/12/2019
Hallo! Now it's unlocked. This is always the problem with tight security - it can backfire.
𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕯𝖔𝖓 𝕳𝖆𝖗𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖔 CEO ∞04/12/2019
thanks @traysi ★★★★★
Under04/12/2019
Thanks guys
[Master] Roshii04/12/2019
it is
Vincent04/12/2019
:nerd:
traysi ★★★★★04/12/2019
I updated Core Developer permissions to manage this channel. Should work in the future.
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
Tron Bruce had mentioned wanting Restricted Assets as a wallet control instead of being on chain. Thoughts?
Tron04/12/2019
>> Tron Bruce had mentioned wanting Restricted Assets as a wallet control instead of being on chain. Thoughts?
I'm not 100% sure what that means.
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
Also, seems to me from just being around here pretty much all day everyday that the community support to have only the original asset holder being the only one ever to issue a restricted asset of the same name is basically 99% universal
Tron04/12/2019
Lots of stuff can be done on the 2nd layer, but not restricting peer to peer trades for those holding their own keys. That's the main reason for Tags and Restricted Assets.
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
Basically Bruce wants to keep restricted asset issuance capabilities at the wallet level
I'm seeing a big security issue with going that route
Chill04/12/2019
I don't want to put words into Bruce's mouth, but that is my understanding as well
Tron04/12/2019
Explain "wallet level" Wallet is a container for private keys in my vernacular.
𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕯𝖔𝖓 𝕳𝖆𝖗𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖔 CEO ∞04/12/2019
brb, googling vernacular
Tron04/12/2019
:smiley:
𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕯𝖔𝖓 𝕳𝖆𝖗𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖔 CEO ∞04/12/2019
learn something new every day
Chill04/12/2019
from verna, meaning house slave. That's you, CEO!
Tron04/12/2019
Sorry, in bitcoin terminology.
bhorn04/12/2019
https://twitter.com/brucefenton/status/1116482635314999296
Bruce Fenton (@brucefenton)
Wallet level controls for securities might offer the best of both worlds: decentralized protocols with the ability for issuers to program and control their digital assets based on whatever rules they choose.
Twitter
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
@Tron Sorry, I wouldn't fully know exactly what Bruce was thinking when he mentioned this to the community, might not be a bad idea to get in touch with him at some point
That ^^^
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
it will need to be somehow baked into the chain, though. No?
otherwise wallet code circumventing it could be conceived
S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org04/12/2019
If any of the committing devs have topics or updates they'd like to bring up, shooot
Tron04/12/2019
Ah, ok. I think that means that issuers can control issuance with their keys and determine whether the recipient is Reg D, Reg S, Accredited, etc. That wouldn't be an on-chain function, and might need to be done first. Only later when secondary trading is approved/allowed/enabled/etc then the Restricted Asset idea is important for those that want to hold their keys/assets.
IRSJonPizza | JON.NETWORK04/12/2019
When better privacy... And how?
Tron04/12/2019
None of this matters if it is held by a regulated custodian.
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
@Tron Yeah, seems to me from a security standpoint, that would be a bad idea
Tron04/12/2019
No PII (Personally Identifiable Information) should go on-chain.
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
so even wallet side things that Bruce mentions rely on the chain having tagged and restricted assets
correct?
Tron04/12/2019
But, in the US, the laws are such for Securities that KYC has to be done for issuance for sure, and likely for trading in a centralized exchange or ATS.
The idea behind tags and assets is to restrict assets to addresses that are tagged. The chain is completely unaware of any other rules. It is just a tool set.
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
understood
Synicide04/12/2019
@Tron has there been any further thought/discussions about the hot topic from the previous dev meeting of uniqueness between regular assets and restricted assets? Last meeting ideas were tossed around for a grace peroid, or sharing unique names.
Under04/12/2019
KYC Isn’t a requirement for lottery. Do you think blending in that use case hurts or helps Ravencoin legitimacy? Could the activity of unregulated securities trading, slowly become the norm much as in the same way pot is becoming legalized? How do we by code accommodate existing systems without giving up on the goal of changing the way fundamentallly people participate in the equity market?
Tron04/12/2019
We've talked about it, but no decisions yet.
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
Lastly, was thinking the dev meeting time is probably not the ideal place for community randoms like myself to voice our thoughts about non-technical specifics like we're discussing currently. Before the hard fork would it be a good idea to kinda have an open mic online forum where the devs and community can get together and talk about some of the governance type issues?
Hans_Schmidt04/12/2019
Is the current plan still to include both messaging and restricted assets in the next release/fork? GUI included or only consensus/rpc level?
Tron04/12/2019
In general, we feel that XYZ is different than $XYZ. There is some additional on-chain burden like holding the rule-set for the restricted asset.
S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org04/12/2019
Could making the !Ownership token reissueable as $Ownership, Be viable? Keeping asset names unique for their owners?
Tron04/12/2019
Tags have to be held by wallets, so there should be a cost to tagging.
[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs04/12/2019
@Hans_Schmidt We are going to try and release them on mainnet at the same time.
S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org04/12/2019
Asset names being unique on chain, no matter the type, would be ideal.
[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs04/12/2019
Not sure about the GUI though.
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
@S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org Yes I feel therr may be a disconnect on this issue between the community and the dev team regarding what u say
Chill04/12/2019
I have yet to interact with anyone here who is in favor of overlapping names, to be honest
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
yep
IRSJonPizza | JON.NETWORK04/12/2019
No overlaps
S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org04/12/2019
"Token names are guaranteed unique."
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
Which is why I've kinda suggested maybe a round table on this issue before we try to push the code through
Tron04/12/2019
Do you think that sentiment would hold with the wider community?
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
It does in my experience
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
I've seen nobody who prefers the grace period idea
S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org04/12/2019
We need to properly survey all channels
IRSJonPizza | JON.NETWORK04/12/2019
We can do a discord vote
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
needs to be wider than discord
S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org04/12/2019
Discord is not enough, discord is not the community.
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
For sure
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
Yeah not by a long shot
Synicide04/12/2019
I would at least like to hear an argument on why they shouldnt be. There have been several arguments on why they should be.
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
twitter, telegram, etc
pool operators
Hans_Schmidt04/12/2019
It could cost a fee to make an asset restricted, and still only the original owner could do it. Issue first, then restrict.
Chill04/12/2019
That's what I was going to say. I have yet to hear an argument that explains why the names should be overlapped
Tron04/12/2019
@S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org I agree. If there's a way to survey the wider community, I think we should go with it.
IRSJonPizza | JON.NETWORK04/12/2019
Well, i guess you can try to push it, let the miners decide
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
The owner of !ASSET ought to have enduring, sole right to create $ASSET
S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org04/12/2019
If anyone has the position that they can be made non unique by a seprate $ownership issuance, Please pm me and we can have a discussion on my youtube stream.
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
@Tron once the voting layer has been activated, this will all be so much easier :yum:
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
assuming an official vote token is produced
But that would be kind of centralized
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
Nothing is official of course
Vincent04/12/2019
the needs to be a logical explanation on how it will be better for the coin to have them not connected
Hardman (CEO - dipshit)04/12/2019
I normally never speak in development-meetings. But I agree with @S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org's opinion. >>Asset names being unique on chain, no matter the type, would be ideal.<<
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
But it's better than having nothing for the devs to rely upon when deciding how the code is gonna be pushed out
Hardman (CEO - dipshit)04/12/2019
And no I don't own any asset :)
IRSJonPizza | JON.NETWORK04/12/2019
Assets being not unique = Fraud and confusion
Hardman (CEO - dipshit)04/12/2019
It would in fact be in my personal benefit if it isn't going to be that way, to squat important names.
Synicide04/12/2019
There have been many potential issues/confusion brought up with them not being unique. But no one understands the counter argument
Tron04/12/2019
I don't have a dog in the hunt. If it is better for the project for $BCD and BCD to be treated as the same -- even though they're different textually and different types of tokens, then I'm ok with that. What I don't want, is to make a decision that has lasting repercussions for the project based on the voices of a few that may have a vested interest because they secured good names.
[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs04/12/2019
Don't worry, Tron is typing :smiley:
Vincent04/12/2019
**jeopardy theme song*
Tron04/12/2019
That's why I mention the "wider" community.
S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org04/12/2019
Absolutely the route to take, gathering the opinions of the greater community.
Vincent04/12/2019
can u give one good counter argument ?
kott04/12/2019
so no counter argument ?!
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
Agreed and this should only be the start of this conversation
bhorn04/12/2019
>>from Tron: they're different textually and different types of tokens
sounds like a counter
Vincent04/12/2019
the only one i can think of is a new life on name squating which in no way helps the project
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
I only bring this up because it seems 99% here prefer forever instead of a grace period. Makes me think it's worthy of discussing to the wider community
Tron04/12/2019
For sure grace period.
S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org04/12/2019
There no argument that it merits discussion
Chill04/12/2019
any company will be forced to buy the !asset and $asset anyway
Vincent04/12/2019
seems like a brexit vote.... revote until the correct vote is recieved
Hardman (CEO - dipshit)04/12/2019
@Tron I agree, if this is going to have lasting repercussions for the project, and will only benefit a few, they should be separated. But then we should asses what the implications would be of doing it or not doing it. Are those known?
bhorn04/12/2019
as a non-developer, it would be confusing to me if ASSETNAME and $ASSETNAME were not related
Tron04/12/2019
If the wider community is for the non-restricted asset having precedent forever to get the token, then its easy to do.
bhorn04/12/2019
hearing about name uniquness, but then those two not being unique, seems like a contradiction
Hardman (CEO - dipshit)04/12/2019
I am all for what is best for the blockchain implementations that will come in the future.
Tron04/12/2019
@bhorn But we can't enforce that. Only at first. $ASSETNAME could be sent to someone else.
Hardman (CEO - dipshit)04/12/2019
They are unique because they are different asset types.
IRSJonPizza | JON.NETWORK04/12/2019
Literally you garentee unique names, then you say nvm... It's like saying this crypto u made is capped at 2000 coins then you say nvm its 1000000
Hardman (CEO - dipshit)04/12/2019
From a code perspective its still unique.
bhorn04/12/2019
but the unique names is for the user
being able to trust the name
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
I'd also add, one of the selling points of RVN over ERC-20 is the ability to only have one unique name ever
bhorn04/12/2019
if you open up the $ASSETNAME to the non-original owner, now someone new can squat it
Vincent04/12/2019
so there really hasn't been a good point yet
bhorn04/12/2019
and it is no longer uniquely owned by the original issuer
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
Statt getting into same name separate asset things and that starts to get confusing
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
they are de facto unique
Hardman (CEO - dipshit)04/12/2019
I think it would be good to have an overview of the benefits and downsides of both ways of implementation.
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
@IRSJonPizza | JON.NETWORK I think you miscomprehend
Vincent04/12/2019
thats not a good argument
Hardman (CEO - dipshit)04/12/2019
Rn we're all kawwing into nothing.
S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org04/12/2019
Giving the !Ownership token the power to reissue as $Ownership would make our Ownership tokens more valuable, overall.
Tron04/12/2019
What if the system required purchase of the non-restricted asset first. If you want $GOOGLE, buy GOOGLE first.
Chill04/12/2019
superb
IRSJonPizza | JON.NETWORK04/12/2019
Yep
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
ohhhhh
NIce Tron
S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org04/12/2019
Yes, you must own !Ownership
Vincent04/12/2019
agree and will go back to building apple in ur garage yrs before needing restrictes asset
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
that's what i've been saying
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
Yessir
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
The owner of !ASSET ought to have enduring, sole right to create $ASSET
whosoever owns it
may then create the $ASSET
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
U got the ownership token, u got the name
IRSJonPizza | JON.NETWORK04/12/2019
As soon as tron says it everyone agrees... Lol
Vincent04/12/2019
yes, we all agree to that i believe
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
That's what a lot of us were saying I think
Hardman (CEO - dipshit)04/12/2019
I really would dislike it if it would have negative implications for rvn and that few moneyminds will benefit from it.
[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs04/12/2019
i think that could work. So GOOGLE! issues -> $GOOGLE?
Chill04/12/2019
perfect
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
I think some of us were phrasing it differently or conceiving of it differently because some of us are thinking from a user perspective and some are thinking from a developer perspective
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
@[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs Exactly
S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org04/12/2019
@[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs More specifically, !Google issues > $Google
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
yeah exactly
Chill04/12/2019
Then, if there is some sort of new token that is needed in the future, GOOGLE has already secured the rights to create that one as well
Tron04/12/2019
The exclamation mark is at the end.
Hans_Schmidt04/12/2019
That's exactly what I proposed earlier. Create or buy owner first. Then restrict for another fee.
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
I always mess that up. putting the ! at the beginning
Hardman (CEO - dipshit)04/12/2019
I know for a matter of fact multiple people own many assets in here. I want to remain neutral here. But you guys speak for your own interest, not for the project.
IRSJonPizza | JON.NETWORK04/12/2019
How much should restricted fee be?
Tron04/12/2019
Oh no, the price discussion. :wink:
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
gotta go!
run tron!
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
@Hardman (CEO - dipshit) a community coin takes into consideration everyone's interest
theking04/12/2019
@Tron that makes a lot of sense. Buy the non restricted first and only when you own that can you purchase or create a restricted.
Vincent04/12/2019
i disagree @Hardman (CEO - dipshit) there hasnt been a good counter argument
Synicide04/12/2019
sounds like a great solution, and fixes the !UNIQUE + $UNIQUE <> UNIQUE issue many have
Tron04/12/2019
I'm becoming convinced on the asset name thing.
[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs04/12/2019
How much do you think is should cost to make a restricted asset guys/girls?
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
I was thinking 750-1000
S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org04/12/2019
500RVN
Gintonic (sold Honda)04/12/2019
Same as unique - 500
RavenLord 🐦04/12/2019
500
Vincent04/12/2019
i dont like the fixed cost discussion (old fight)
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
Or maybe if u already own the !asset, just add another 250-500 to get it created
Synicide04/12/2019
It needs to cost enough to where only people that need that functionality buy it IMO
Chill04/12/2019
Since we do not know whether any future types of tokens will be needed (as the future is not set yet), giving one name control over that name in all current assets and future types of assets is a logical solution. It's a future-proof solution
Hans_Schmidt04/12/2019
same as create new main asset
RigbyMiner04/12/2019
restricted asset should cost 3-5 times that of a regular asset.
Hardman (CEO - dipshit)04/12/2019
Then, if it costs money, why would YOU only be able to register it?
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
100 for sub. 500 for main. 2500 for restricted?
5x 5x?
Tron04/12/2019
(750+250+500+5000+500) / 5
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
IMO restricted assets add extra user tools to the OG assets so they should cost more than 500 to create
Chill04/12/2019
The cost for the restricted token should be only commensurate with the cost to the network imo
Vincent04/12/2019
when the coin is accepted by the masses, there will be plenty of burning
no need for inflated (imo)
nobody is gonna issue restricted, just because
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
Plus I think the difference in cost should also promote usage of the OG asset when a user doesn't need the added functionality of a restricted asset
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
if you think about it a restricted already costs more than a main, because it includes having already paid for the main
Hans_Schmidt04/12/2019
Before we run out of time- What is the current eta for restricted/messaging mainnet release - How much time to security debug? Are there plans for another bug bounty program?
Jeroz04/12/2019
What if I want only my guild members or game buyers to trade my coins or items or dragon kill points. Why should I pay more for an asset then?
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
I'd like to thank everyone for attending the #governance-meeting today :joy::joy::joy:
Gintonic (sold Honda)04/12/2019
Unpopular thought: Could we let the devs to discuss about other issues?
Tron04/12/2019
We are going to have another wallet for Android that does BIP44 and handles assets. There will be a classic RVN only wallet, and an asset-aware wallet that is seed-compatible with iOS wallet.
Coming soon. Testing it in the next few hours.
traysi ★★★★★04/12/2019
The last wallet was not released as open source. Will the next one be?
Vincent04/12/2019
wen wallet for my windows phone???
Jeroz04/12/2019
Quick before the end and while I’m walking to pick up my son:
I'm not sure if I can make the meeting but wanted to show a list of things that are going on outside of the core development and things that I think deserve attention:
- Ravenland made an OS for the PI, which significantly reduces the difficulty threshold of creating full nodes. https://ravencoinos.org/. I am still planning on helping @push | ravenland.org with some tools for it but very swamped with work lately (Sorry @push | ravenland.org!)
- Mangofarm is very busy developing their web-wallet and asset management services. https://www.mangofarmassets.com/. There will be new features coming.
- Mangofarm is in a far stage with Trezor integration and just finished their first transaction.
- Mangofarm and Ravenland are busy setting up an IPFS swarm to make sure all RVN data will stay active. Reach out to them if you like to be a part of it.
- I am in continuous talks with people/services interested in supporting RVN (I get mainly approached on telegram). And would like to mention once again that, imho, Raven could greatly benefit from a bounty system like: https://bounty.bitcoin.com/. Not only to 1 attract devs but also because 2 people don't know how to donate (yes I am getting the question), 3 current community funds are poorly managed, if at all, 4 there are coin services emerging where trading fees can be routed back to community projects and without going into details, I do talk to some.
Tron04/12/2019
It is open source. Both will be.
traysi ★★★★★04/12/2019
Current Android wallet is not on github.
Tron04/12/2019
Super cool stuff from Ravenland and MangoFarm !!!!
[Master] Roshii04/12/2019
https://github.com/RavenProject/ravenwallet-android
GitHub
RavenProject/ravenwallet-android
Contribute to RavenProject/ravenwallet-android development by creating an account on GitHub.
traysi ★★★★★04/12/2019
Latest commit 5134271 on Oct 4, 2018
Tron04/12/2019
Could we use the same people that did the legal fund to do a bounty fund?
traysi ★★★★★04/12/2019
Is that the latest version @[Master] Roshii ?
S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org04/12/2019
Bounty for what @Tron
[Master] Roshii04/12/2019
Yes
Tron04/12/2019
For the wallet for download.
That will become RVN Wallet Classic.
traysi ★★★★★04/12/2019
It seems some people are using an android wallet different than that one.
DirkDiggler (RVN ded)04/12/2019
back to the discussion on the Restricted asset cost - it seems to me that it should be 5k +, as it's such a specialized use case (institutions)... KYC/AML shouldn't be cheap
CPT d0JA04/12/2019
im all for bounties for things but they must be discussed upon and agreed in public space and i dont think its fair if certain people have access to that knowledge of bounties before they are posted to get a head start on the work and claim the bounty right after its posted
my 2 pennies
Tron04/12/2019
The PR in there is for asset support. We're testing this afternoon
Vincent04/12/2019
@DirkDiggler (RVN ded) i think cheap, the more users the merrier
IRSJonPizza | JON.NETWORK04/12/2019
Def needs to be real expensive... I dont wanna see a market for this
Hardman (CEO - dipshit)04/12/2019
@CPT d0JA I agree with you. All should be done and agreed upon in public. Nothing in backrooms.
Tron04/12/2019
So I have a "cheap" and a "real expensive". PERFECT!
DirkDiggler (RVN ded)04/12/2019
consensus :)
kott04/12/2019
must be expensive
Vincent04/12/2019
we want RVN used...make it affordable for all
bhorn04/12/2019
i'm with wider-use
less expensive
Tron04/12/2019
Two cheaps and two real expensive.
Vincent04/12/2019
to be continued......
DirkDiggler (RVN ded)04/12/2019
these guys arent seeing the big picture of who would be using this type of asset
cheap is a relative term
CPT d0JA04/12/2019
so moving forward if people have some good ideas for bounties they should be posted in a public space and then discussed amongst the community, there should be no closed room discussions or people in power making the decisions on which bounties are posted, especially for things the coin doesnt need.
Synicide04/12/2019
tags can be used for many use cases outside of KYC though, as Tron has used subscriptions as an example
DirkDiggler (RVN ded)04/12/2019
as is expensive...
Vincent04/12/2019
@Tronare u aware of any tokens, like vinsent, that will issue and burn a lot of coin just based on the use plan?
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
unique assets, despite being only 5RVN could burn a lot of RVN
theDopeMedic04/12/2019
What would that do to the burn if it's more expensive?
Hardman (CEO - dipshit)04/12/2019
I think the choice should be made in a way that its good for the basis of the project, not for interest of a few, sounds harsh I know. What if new asset_types arise, will those owning the current asset always get a freecard to get it first? Wouldn't be fair.
Vincent04/12/2019
agree
DirkDiggler (RVN ded)04/12/2019
5000 ravens burned to KYC folks is a bargain... and it helps all us dipshit bag holders of RVN
Vincent04/12/2019
if GM tokenized each vehicle...they would burn a lot annually
bhorn04/12/2019
imagine years down the road, if price continues to increase
Tron04/12/2019
I agree that the types of organizations that would use for SEC compliance are not going to worry whether it costs $5 or $100. But some subscription, games, vip groups, etc. may be more price sensitive.
Vincent04/12/2019
why are u worrying about the cost of running other peoples business tho...it is about RVN acceptance
CPT d0JA04/12/2019
increasing the burn rate has the negative affect of reducing the total number of assets that can be created on ravencoin
bhorn04/12/2019
it could get to the point where its prohibitively expensive to use the chain
Synicide04/12/2019
we don't want to price out that small guy wanting to run a subscription based platform though, we want as widespread usage as possible
IRSJonPizza | JON.NETWORK04/12/2019
What jf we did something like this :
The more charachers, the cheaper it gets
Let the big corps pay alot on their 3 letters
Vincent04/12/2019
overload
IRSJonPizza | JON.NETWORK04/12/2019
Then small corps can pay less with their 5+ letter assers
Tron04/12/2019
We do want usage (now). But we want the costs to reflect the real cost of chain usage so we don't mess up scaling.
theDopeMedic04/12/2019
Assuming everyone who already owns an asset (19059) issues a restricted at 5k, then that burns 95,285,000 RVN. Not just that, it may be prohibitive to the small guy.
liqdmetal04/12/2019
500 for original and 1500 for restricted (tohelp cover extra on chain burden) is my vote
DirkDiggler (RVN ded)04/12/2019
cost of the restricted asset isn't a hill i am ready to die on... i just think it should be more costly than a standard asset
Vincent04/12/2019
plus think of develping nations...their 'restricted' needs may be much different and expensive will have them lok for alternatives
Tron04/12/2019
@liqdmetal I like that range.
DirkDiggler (RVN ded)04/12/2019
1500 would be good in my book as well
Synicide04/12/2019
I hadn't picked a number in mind, but I like that range too
liqdmetal04/12/2019
so total cost for a restricted would be 500 + 1500
DirkDiggler (RVN ded)04/12/2019
2k all in? i like
Vincent04/12/2019
500/500
IRSJonPizza | JON.NETWORK04/12/2019
Sounds good to me
Tron04/12/2019
Everybody was all at 500/1500 until Vincent. WTH
Vincent04/12/2019
haha
Tron04/12/2019
Just kidding.
kott04/12/2019
ignore him 500/1500 is perfect
Vincent04/12/2019
i voted cheap first
DirkDiggler (RVN ded)04/12/2019
there is always one in the crowd :)
theDopeMedic04/12/2019
Is there are favorite horse with the @Core Developer s?
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
roger that
𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕯𝖔𝖓 𝕳𝖆𝖗𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖔 CEO ∞04/12/2019
wait, i didn't approve anything yet :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org04/12/2019
I see 1500 being reasonable and scalable.
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
2k all in for the ! and the $
A reasonable compromise
Synicide04/12/2019
neither of them is bad when we keep in mind Restricted cost is the sum of both
S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org04/12/2019
@theDopeMedic seabiscuit
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
manowar
[Master] Roshii04/12/2019
Yes there is are favorite horse with the Core Devs
theDopeMedic04/12/2019
Tonto
bhorn04/12/2019
i'm more agreeable to the higher price given that you need UNIQUE! to get $UNIQUE as well.
Vincent04/12/2019
so we agree. table this decision :nerd:
[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs04/12/2019
I think we did some good discussion today. Lets call it.
Tron04/12/2019
This was actually really productive. I like where we landed.
Cheers, everyone.
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor04/12/2019
I'd be ok w 500/1500
[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs04/12/2019
Can we close the channel
@Moderator
S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org04/12/2019
Thanks everyone.
Gintonic (sold Honda)04/12/2019
Thanks
Vincent04/12/2019
:thumbsup:
DirkDiggler (RVN ded)04/12/2019
have a good weekend
IRSJonPizza | JON.NETWORK04/12/2019
Byr
theDopeMedic04/12/2019
Thanks everyone! :beers:
S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org04/12/2019
Happy feet
Seal Clubber04/12/2019
Oh no
IRSJonPizza | JON.NETWORK04/12/2019
:bepbep:... I had to srry
neil04/12/2019
Close!
theDopeMedic04/12/2019
https://tenor.com/view/thanos-confused-gif-11877270
Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)04/12/2019
Thanks Tron
Thanks Devs!
Chill04/12/2019
I'm ok with 500/500 up to 500/1500
Seal Clubber04/12/2019
That would be 2k total right
IRSJonPizza | JON.NETWORK04/12/2019
Quik mas
Vincent04/12/2019
i dont plan on having any restricted assets but just think worldwide it will help the coin to keep it real user friendly
traysi ★★★★★04/12/2019
@[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs Try closing the channel
Looks like that works.
[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs04/12/2019
Yep it did :smiley:
i got permissions now :smiley:
submitted by mrderrik to Ravencoin [link] [comments]

Bitcoin Foundation: Where did all the Money Go?

This week Charles Hoskinson posted a thoughtful post on the Bitcoin Foundation and his idea that an audit would help the organization break from the past.
I'm happy to support an audit provided someone can lead it and do the work involved and/ or support the costs of one.
I do remain skeptical of the value of an audit. We all know that a lot of money was wasted and lost - I detail the basics of the 2014 spending below -- it is unlikely worse than imagined as all the funds are essentially gone. I don't think much can be done about past mistakes, the people involved are no longer with the organization.
Also this week, someone on an anti-Bitcoin sub posted this data from the 990 forms and was afraid it would be censored if posted on Bitcoin.
I'm happy to post it for them, minus the color commentary and a couple of minor factual inaccuracies.
They also implied that some people would want to not have this information brought to light. I'm more than glad to. I don't defend these financial decisions as I had nothing to do with them. I also had thought the 2014 990 form with this was posted once completed this summer. At that time we were going through a website and server change and I was also recovering from a car accident, so if it was posted it wasn't in the proper place. For not having the 990 form posted in the correct section a few months back , that's on me and I'm sorry.
The bigger matter is the financials themselves.
I don't defend these financials, I certainly don't apologize for them or attempt to justify them. I had nothing whatsoever to do with these decisions.
As you can see the spending / loss was caused by:
1) a large drop in Bitcoin value costing millions of dollars - the peak foundation assets were calculated based on a Bitcoin price in the $800 range -- so, had they simply held those coins it would have seen the $6-7 million fall to $2 million or so
2) ridiculously wasteful and reckless spending
3) reasonable and legitimate expenses such as Gavin and dev salaries
I have not been presented any evidence of any theft, criminal act or similar wrongdoing but would be happy to pay a bounty of at least 10% for anyone with information and evidence of any such act leading to recovery of any funds which were misappropriated or stolen. Those who imply that there is any wrongdoing at the foundation now or by those involved now should come forward with evidence or at least a solid and specific accusation. If presented with any such evidence I would work to have justice done.
It seems strange that so many make an effort to tie those involved now to the sins of the past.
This is the point of a turnaround; to take what an organization has and make it as useful as possible. Many people think that the change in management and new focus, combined with a new mission statement can help the organization to help Bitcoin more.
I wish that the foundation hadn't had so many problems. I did think it was worthwhile to try to help the organization.
Here are the finances:
Salaries
Gavin Andresen: $147k. Chief Scientist. Salary down from $209k (salary was higher in 2013 as it was pegged to BTCUSD)
Jodie Brady: $141k. COO of the Foundation, who also served as CFO at CoinLab (Peter Vessenes' affiliate company).
Jon Matonis: $137.5k through "THE HOLE OF ROY LLC". Salary up from $31k. Jon Matonis acted as Executive Director up to October 2014.
Patrick Murck: $115k. Executive Director of the Foundation (as of November 2014). Salary up from $57k.
Contractors:
"LOCAL PRODUCER" was paid $790k to host Bitcoin 2014 in Amsterdam.
Apple Fundraising Consultants were also paid $123k for activities related to the aforementioned conference.
THEPOLICYCOUNCILCOM INC as the Foundation's 'Global Policy Counsel', paid $114k for about 9 months of work in 2014.
And the breakdown of the functional expenses, oh, so many expenses: Office Expenses: $39k up from $8k in 2013.
Information Technology: $158k up from $67k
Travel: $159k up from $69k
Occupancy: $18k up from $7k.
Accounting: $50.5k up from $9.1k.
Legal fees: $220k up from $161k.
Other: $653k, consisting of:
Professional services: $307k
Public relations: $93k
Executive Directory Compensation: $137.5k
Professional event expenses: $115k
Other salaries and wages: $471k up from $72k
Revenues : Membership dues: $335k down from $358k Conference revenue: $584k up from $337k At the end of 2014 not much was left: $366k.
2015
The beginning of 2015 still had many expenses similar to the above. At the time I came aboard those costs reduced dramatically. There were still high outstanding legal and accounting bills as well as the bitnodes funding and Bitcoin.org funding and other previous obligations that were paid.
Current spending is in the $8k / mo range
Current expenses:
Board salaries: $0
Executive Director salary: $0
All reimbursements for travel: in the range of $3000 - primarily for three speakers airfare and hotel (me, Gavin and Andreas) to DevCore, $600 in pizza for the attendees etc.
Aside from one economy flight to DevCore and the hotel I have personally not been reimbursed for any travel. I have paid some costs from my own credit card for web hosting etc which were also reimbursed - this is also a small amount, perhaps in the $2000 range
Current salaries include one part time bookkeeper and one almost full time ops director.
I'd love any feedback about what the organization can do to break from the past. We could close, sure. I'm not convinced that is what's best for Bitcoin and 8/10 top voted candidates from the last four elections don't think that's what the members want. What else can an organization do to move forward?
EDIT: BTW, here is the mission statement posted a couple weeks back by the new board - IMHO it's more productive to focus on this than the past https://github.com/BruceFenton/bitcoinfoundationplan
submitted by bruce_fenton to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

IRC Log from Ravencoin Open Developer Meeting - Aug 24, 2018

[14:05] <@wolfsokta> Hello Everybody, sorry we're a bit late getting started
[14:05] == block_338778 [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.72.214.222.226] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:06] <@wolfsokta> Here are the topics we would like to cover today • 2.0.4 Need to upgrade - What we have done to communicate to the community • Unique Assets • iOS Wallet • General Q&A
[14:06] == Chatturga changed the topic of #ravencoin-dev to: 2.0.4 Need to upgrade - What we have done to communicate to the community • Unique Assets • iOS Wallet • General Q&A
[14:06] <@wolfsokta> Daben, could you mention what we have done to communicate the need for the 2.0.4 upgrade?
[14:07] == hwhwhsushwban [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.172.58.37.35] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:07] <@wolfsokta> Others here are free to chime in where they saw the message first.
[14:07] == hwhwhsushwban [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.172.58.37.35] has quit [Client Quit]
[14:08] Whats up bois
[14:08] hi everyone
[14:08] hi hi
[14:08] <@wolfsokta> Discussing the 2.0.4 update and the need to upgrade.
[14:08] <@Chatturga> Sure. As most of you are aware, the community has been expressing concerns with the difficulty oscillations, and were asking that something be done to the difficulty retargeting. Many people submitted suggestions, and the devs decided to implement DGW.
[14:09] <@Tron> I wrote up a short description of why we're moving to a new difficulty adjustment. https://medium.com/@tronblack/ravencoin-dark-gravity-wave-1da0a71657f7
[14:09] <@Chatturga> I have made posts on discord, telegram, bitcointalk, reddit, and ravencointalk.org from testnet stages through current.
[14:10] <@Chatturga> If there are any other channels that can reach a large number of community members, I would love to have more.
[14:10] <@wolfsokta> Thanks Tron, that hasn't been shared to the community at large yet, but folks feel free to share it.
[14:10] When was this decision made and by whom and how?
[14:10] <@Chatturga> I have also communicated with the pool operators and exchanges about the update. Of all of the current pools, only 2 have not yet updated versions.
[14:11] <@wolfsokta> The decision was made by the developers through ongoing requests for weeks made by the community.
[14:12] <@wolfsokta> Evidence was provided by the community of the damages that could be caused to projects when the wild swings continue.
[14:12] So was there a meeting or vote? How can people get invited
[14:12] <@Tron> It was also informed by my conversations with some miners that recommended that we make the change before the coin died. They witnessed similar oscillations from which other coins never recovered.
[14:13] only two pools left to upgrade is good, what about the exchanges? Any word on how many of those have/have not upgraded?
[14:13] <@wolfsokta> We talked about here in our last meeting Bruce_. All attendees were asked if they had any questions or concerns.
[14:13] == blondfrogs [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.185.245.87.219] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:13] == roshii [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.41.251.25.100] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:13] sup roshii long time no see
[14:14] <@Chatturga> Bittrex, Cryptopia, and IDCM have all either updated or have announced their intent to update.
[14:14] == wjcgiwgu283ik3cj [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.172.58.37.35] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:15] sup russki
[14:15] what's the status here?
[14:15] I don’t think that was at all clear from the last dev meeting
[14:15] I can’t be the only person who didn’t understand it
[14:15] <@wolfsokta> Are there any suggestions on how to communicate the need to upgrade even further? I am concerned that others might also not understand.
[14:17] I’m not sold on the benefit and don’t understand the need for a hard fork — I think it’s a bad precedent to simply go rally exchanges to support a hard fork with little to no discussion
[14:17] so just to note, the exchanges not listed as being upgraded or have announced their intention to upgrade include: qbtc, upbit, and cryptobridge (all with over $40k usd volume past 24 hours according to coinmarketcap)
[14:18] <@wolfsokta> I don't agree that there was little or no discussion at all.
[14:19] <@wolfsokta> Looking back at our meeting notes from two weeks ago "fork" was specifically asked about by BrianMCT.
[14:19] If individual devs have the power to simple decide to do something as drastic as a hard fork and can get exchanges and miners to do it that’s got a lot of issues with centralization
[14:19] <@wolfsokta> It had been implemented on testnet by then and discussed in the community for several weeks before that.
[14:19] == under [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.72.200.168.56] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:19] howdy
[14:19] Everything I’ve seen has been related to the asset layer
[14:19] I have to agree with Bruce_, though I wasn't able to join the last meeting here. That said I support the fork
[14:20] Which devs made this decision to do a fork and how was it communicated?
[14:20] well mostly the community made the decision
[14:20] Consensus on a change is the heart of bitcoin development and I believe the devs have done a great job building that consensus
[14:20] a lot of miners were in uproar about the situation
[14:20] <@wolfsokta> All of the devs were supporting the changes. It wasn't done in isolation at all.
[14:21] This topic has been a huge discussion point within the RVN mining community for quite some time
[14:21] the community and miners have been having issues with the way diff is adjusted for quite some time now
[14:21] Sure I’m well aware of that -
[14:21] Not sold on the benefits of having difficulty crippled by rented hashpower?
[14:21] The community saw a problem. The devs got together and talked about a solution and implemented a solution
[14:21] I’m active in the community
[14:22] So well aware of the discussions on DGW etc
[14:22] Hard fork as a solution to a problem community had with rented hashpower (nicehash!!) sounds like the perfect decentralized scenario!
[14:23] hard forks are very dangerous
[14:23] mining parties in difficulty drops are too
[14:23] <@wolfsokta> Agreed, we want to keep them to an absolute minimum.
[14:23] But miners motivation it’s the main vote
[14:24] What would it take to convince you that constantly going from 4 Th/s to 500 Gh/s every week is worse for the long term health of the coin than the risk of a hard fork to fix it?
[14:24] == Tron [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.173.241.144.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[14:24] This hardfork does include the asset layer right? if so why is it being delayed in implementation?
[14:24] <@wolfsokta> Come back Tron!
[14:24] coudl it have been implement through bip9 voting?
[14:24] also hard fork is activated by the community! that's a vote thing!
[14:24] @mrsushi to give people time to upgrade their wallet
[14:25] @under, it would be much hard to keep consensus with a bip9 change
[14:25] <@wolfsokta> We investigated that closely Under.
[14:25] == Tron [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.173.241.144.77] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:25] <@wolfsokta> See Tron's post for more details about that.
[14:25] <@spyder_> Hi Tron
[14:25] <@wolfsokta> https://medium.com/@tronblack/ravencoin-dark-gravity-wave-1da0a71657f7
[14:25] Sorry about that. Computer went to sleep.
[14:26] I'm wrong
[14:26] 2 cents. the release deadline of october 31st puts a bit of strain on getting code shipped. (duh). but fixing daa was important to the current health of the coin, and was widely suppported by current mining majority commuity. could it have been implemented in a different manner? yes . if we didnt have deadlines
[14:27] == wjcgiwgu283ik3cj [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.172.58.37.35] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
[14:27] sushi this fork does not include assets. it's not being delayed though, we're making great progress for an Oct 31 target
[14:28] I don’t see the urgency but my vote doesn’t matter since my hash power is still CPUs
[14:28] <@wolfsokta> We're seeing the community get behind the change as well based on the amount of people jumping back in to mine through this last high difficulty phase.
[14:28] So that will be another hardfork?
[14:28] the fork does include the asset code though set to activate on oct 30th
[14:28] yes
[14:29] <@wolfsokta> Yes, it will based on the upgrade voting through the BIP9 process.
[14:29] I wanted to ask about burn rates from this group: and make a proposal.
[14:29] we're also trying hard to make it the last for awhile
[14:29] Can you clear up the above — there will be this one and another hard fork?
[14:29] <@wolfsokta> Okay, we could discuss that under towards the end of the meeting.
[14:30] If this one has the asset layer is there something different set for October
[14:30] <@wolfsokta> Yes, there will be another hard fork on October 31st once the voting process is successful.
[14:31] <@wolfsokta> The code is in 2.0.4 now and assets are active on testnet
[14:31] Bruce, the assets layer is still being worked on. Assets is active on mainnet. So in Oct 31 voting will start. and if it passes, the chain will fork.
[14:31] this one does NOT include assets for mainnet Bruce -- assets are targeted for Oct 31
[14:31] not***
[14:31] not active****
[14:31] correct me if I'm wrong here, but if everyone upgrades to 2.0.4 for this fork this week, the vote will automatically pass on oct 31st correct? nothing else needs to be done
[14:31] Will if need another download or does this software download cover both forks?
[14:31] <@wolfsokta> Correct Urgo
[14:32] thats how the testnet got activated and this one shows "asset activation status: waiting until 10/30/2018 20:00 (ET)"
[14:32] Will require another upgrade before Oct 31
[14:32] thank you for the clarification wolfsokta
[14:32] <@wolfsokta> It covers both forks, but we might have additional bug fixes in later releases.
[14:32] So users DL one version now and another one around October 30 which activates after that basically?
[14:33] I understand that, but I just wanted to make it clear that if people upgrade to this version for this fork and then don't do anything, they are also voting for the fork on oct 31st
[14:33] Oh okay — one DL?
[14:33] Bruce, Yes.
[14:33] Ty
[14:33] well there is the issue that there maybe some further consensus bugs dealing with the pruneability of asset transactions that needs to be corrected between 2.0.4 and mainnet. so i would imagine that there will be further revisions required to upgrade before now and october 31
[14:33] @under that is correct.
[14:34] I would highly recommend bumping the semver up to 3.0.0 for the final pre 31st release so that the public know to definitely upgrade
[14:34] @under +1
[14:35] out of curiosity, have there been many bugs found with the assets from the version released in july for testnet (2.0.3) until this version? or is it solely a change to DGW?
[14:35] <@wolfsokta> That's not a bad idea under.
[14:35] <@spyder_> @under good idea
[14:35] @urgo. Bugs are being found and fixed daily.
[14:35] Any time the protocol needs to change, there would need to be a hard fork (aka upgrade). It is our hope that we can activate feature forks through the BIP process (as we are doing for assets). Mining pools and exchanges will need to be on the newest software at the point of asset activation - should the mining hash power vote for assets.
[14:35] blondfrogs: gotcha
[14:35] There have been bugs found (and fixed). Testing continues. We appreciate all the bug reports you can give us.
[14:36] <@wolfsokta> Yes! Thank you all for your help in the community.
[14:37] (pull requests with fixes and test coverage would be even better!)
[14:37] asset creation collision is another major issue. current unfair advantage or nodes that fore connect to mining pools will have network topologies that guarantee acceptance. I had discussed the possibility of fee based asset creation selection and i feel that would be a more equal playing ground for all users
[14:38] *of nodes that force
[14:38] <@wolfsokta> What cfox said, we will always welcome development help.
[14:38] So just to make sure everyone know. When assets is ready to go live on oct 31st. Everyone that wants to be on the assets chain without any problems will have to download the new binary.
[14:39] <@wolfsokta> The latest binary.
[14:39] under: already in the works
[14:39] excellent to hear
[14:39] == UserJonPizza [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.24.218.60.237] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:39] <@wolfsokta> Okay, we've spent a bunch of time on that topic and I think it was needed. Does anybody have any other suggestions on how to get the word out even more?
[14:40] maybe preface all 2.0.X releases as pre-releases... minimize the number of releases between now and 3.0 etc
[14:41] <@wolfsokta> Bruce_ let's discuss further offline.
[14:41] wolfsokta: which are the remaining two pools that need to be upgraded? I've identified qbtc, upbit, and cryptobridge as high volume exchanges that haven't said they were going to do it yet
[14:41] so people can help reach out to them
[14:41] f2pool is notoriously hard to contact
[14:41] are they on board?
[14:42] <@wolfsokta> We could use help reaching out to QBTC and Graviex
[14:42] I can try to contact CB if you want?
[14:42] <@Chatturga> The remaining pools are Ravenminer and PickAxePro.
[14:42] <@Chatturga> I have spoken with their operators, the update just hasnt been applied yet.
[14:42] ravenminer is one of the largest ones too. If they don't upgrade that will be a problem
[14:42] okay good news
[14:42] (PickAxePro sounds like a Ruby book)
[14:43] I strongly feel like getting the word out on ravencoin.org would be beneficial
[14:44] that site is sorely in need of active contribution
[14:44] Anyone can volunteer to contribute
[14:44] <@wolfsokta> Okay, cfox can you talk about the status of unique assets?
[14:44] sure
[14:45] <@wolfsokta> I'll add website to the end of our topics.
[14:45] code is in review and will be on the development branch shortly
[14:45] would it make sense to have a page on the wiki (or somewhere else) that lists the wallet versions run by pools & exchanges?
[14:45] will be in next release
[14:45] furthermore, many sites have friendly link to the standard installers for each platform, if the site linked to the primary installers for each platform to reduce github newb confusion that would be good as well
[14:46] likely to a testnetv5 although that isn't settled
[14:46] <@wolfsokta> Thanks cfox.
[14:46] <@wolfsokta> Are there any questions about unique assets, and how they work?
[14:47] after the # are there any charachters you cant use?
[14:47] will unique assets be constrained by the asset alphanumeric set?
[14:47] ^
[14:47] <@Chatturga> @Urgo there is a page that tracks and shows if they have updated, but it currently doesnt show the actual version that they are on.
[14:47] a-z A-Z 0-9
[14:47] <@Chatturga> https://raven.wiki/wiki/Exchange_notifications#Pools
[14:47] There are a few. Mostly ones that mess with command-line
[14:47] you'll be able to use rpc to do "issueunique MATRIX ['Neo','Tank','Tank Brother']" and it will create three assets for you (MATRIX#Neo, etc.)
[14:47] @cfox - No space
[14:48] @under the unique tags have an expanded set of characters allowed
[14:48] Chatturga: thank you
[14:48] @UJP yes there are some you can't use -- I'll try to post gimmie a sec..
[14:49] Ok. Thank you much!
[14:49] 36^36 assets possible and 62^62 uniques available per asset?
[14:49] <@spyder_> std::regex UNIQUE_TAG_CHARACTERS("^[[email protected]$%&*()[\\]{}<>_.;?\\\\:]+$");
[14:50] regex UNIQUE_TAG_CHARACTERS("^[[email protected]$%&*()[\\]{}<>_.;?\\\\:]+$")
[14:50] oh thanks Mark
[14:51] <@wolfsokta> Okay, next up. I want to thank everybody for helping test the iOS wallet release.
[14:51] <@wolfsokta> We are working with Apple to get the final approval to post it to the App Store
[14:51] @under max asset length is 30, including unique tag
[14:51] Does the RVN wallet have any other cryptos or just RVN?
[14:52] == BruceFenton [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.67.189.233.170] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:52] will the android and ios source be migrated to the ravenproject github?
[14:52] I've been adding beta test users. I've added about 80 new users in the last few days.
[14:52] <@wolfsokta> Just RVN, and we want to focus on adding the asset support to the wallet.
[14:53] == Bruce_ [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.67.189.233.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[14:53] <@wolfsokta> Yes, the code will also be freely available on GitHub for both iOS and Android. Thank you Roshii!
[14:53] Would you consider the iOS wallet to be a more secure place for one's holdings than say, a Mac connected to the internet?
[14:53] will there be a chance of a more user freindly wallet with better graphics like the iOS on PC?
[14:53] the android wallet is getting updated for DGW, correct?
[14:53] <@wolfsokta> That has come up in our discussion Pizza.
[14:54] QT framework is pretty well baked in and is cross platform. if we get some qt gurus possibly
[14:54] Phones are pretty good because the wallet we forked uses the TPM from modern phones.
[14:54] Most important is to write down and safely store your 12 word seed.
[14:54] TPM?
[14:54] <@wolfsokta> A user friendly wallet is one of our main goals.
[14:55] TPM == Trusted Platform Module
[14:55] Ahhh thanks
[14:55] just please no electron apps. they are full of security holes
[14:55] <@spyder_> It is whats makes your stuffs secure
[14:55] not fit for crypto
[14:55] under: depends on who makes it
[14:55] The interface screenshots I've seen look like Bread/Loaf wallet ... I assume that's what was forked from
[14:55] ;)
[14:56] <@wolfsokta> @roshii did you see the question about the Android wallet and DGW?
[14:56] Yes, it was a fork of breadwallet. We like their security.
[14:56] chromium 58 is the last bundled electron engine and has every vuln documented online by google. so unless you patch every vuln.... methinks not
[14:56] Agreed, great choice
[14:57] <@wolfsokta> @Under, what was your proposal?
[14:58] All asset creation Transactions have a mandatory OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY of 1 year(or some agreed upon time interval), and the 500 RVN goes to a multisig devfund, run by a custodial group. We get: 1) an artificial temporary burn, 2) sustainable community and core development funding for the long term, after OSTK/Medici 3) and the reintroduction of RVN supply at a fixed schedule, enabling the removal of the 42k max cap of total As
[14:58] *im wrong on the 42k figure
[14:58] <@wolfsokta> Interesting...
[14:59] <@wolfsokta> Love to hear others thoughts.
[14:59] Update: I posted a message on the CryptoBridge discord and one of their support members @stepollo#6276 said he believes the coin team is already aware of the fork but he would forward the message about the fork over to them right now anyway
[14:59] Ifs 42 million assets
[14:59] yep.
[15:00] I have a different Idea. If the 500 RVN goes to a dev fund its more centralized. The 500 RVN should go back into the unmined coins so miners can stay for longer.
[15:01] *without a hardfork
[15:01] <@wolfsokta> lol
[15:01] that breaks halving schedule, since utxos cant return to an unmined state.
[15:01] @UJP back into coinbase is interesting. would have to think about how that effects distribution schedule, etc.
[15:01] only way to do that would be to dynamicaly grow max supply
[15:02] and i am concerned already about the max safe integer on various platforms at 21 billion
[15:02] js chokes on ravencoin already
[15:02] <@wolfsokta> Other thoughts on Under's proposal? JS isn't a real language. ;)
[15:02] Well Bitcoin has more than 21 bn Sats
[15:02] Is there somebody who wants to volunteer to fix js.
[15:02] hahaha
[15:03] I honestly would hate for the coins to go to a dev fund. It doesn't seem like Ravencoin to me.
[15:03] Yep, but we're 21 billion x 100,000,000 -- Fits fine in a 64-bit integer, but problematic for some languages.
[15:03] <@wolfsokta> Thanks UJP
[15:04] <@wolfsokta> We're past time but I would like to continue if you folks are up for it.
[15:04] Yeah no coins can go anywhere centrality contorted like a dev fund cause that would mean someone has to run it and the code can’t decide that so it’s destined to break
[15:05] currently and long term with out the financial backing of development then improvements and features will be difficult. we are certainly thankful for our current development model. but if a skunkworks project hits a particular baseline of profitability any reasonable company would terminate it
[15:05] Yes let’s contibue for sure
[15:05] the alternative to a dev fund in my mind would be timelocking those funds back to the issuers change address
[15:06] But we can’t have dev built in to the code — it has to be open source like Bitcoin and monero and Litecoin - it’s got drawbacks but way more advantages- it’s the best model
[15:06] Dev funding
[15:06] i highly reccommend not reducing the utility of raven by removing permanently the supply
[15:07] == BW_ [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.138.68.243.202] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[15:07] timelocking those funds accompllishes the same sacrifice
[15:07] @under timelocking is interesting too
[15:07] How exactly does timelocking work?
[15:07] <@wolfsokta> ^
[15:07] I mean you could change the price of assets with the Block reward halfing.
[15:07] == Roshiix [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.105.67.2.212] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[15:08] funds cant be spent from an address until a certain time passes
[15:08] but in a what magical fairy land do people continue to work for free forever. funding development is a real issue... as much as some might philosphically disagree. its a reality
[15:08] You’d still need a centralized party to decide how to distribute the funds
[15:08] even unofficially blockstream supports bitcoin devs
[15:08] on chain is more transparent imho
[15:09] == Tron_ [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.173.241.144.77] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[15:09] @UJP yes there are unlimited strategies. one factor that I think is v important is giving application developers a way to easily budget for projects which leads to flat fees
[15:09] If the project is a success like many of believe it will be, I believe plenty of people will gladly done to a dev fund. I don't think the 500 should be burned.
[15:09] *donate
[15:09] centralized conservatorship, directed by community voting process
[15:10] == Tron [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.173.241.144.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[15:10] <@wolfsokta> Thanks Under, that's an interesting idea that we should continue to discuss in the community. You also mentioned the existing website.
[15:10] It would need to be something where everyone with a QT has a vote
[15:10] think his computer went to sleep again :-/
[15:10] I agree UJP
[15:10] with the website
[15:10] No that’s ico jargon — any development fund tied to code would have to be centralized and would therefor fail
[15:11] ^
[15:11] ^
[15:11] ^
[15:11] dashes model for funding seems to be pretty decentralized
[15:11] community voting etc
[15:11] Once you have a dev fund tied to code then who gets to run it? Who mediates disputes?
[15:11] oh well another discussion
[15:11] Dash has a CEO
[15:12] <@wolfsokta> Yeah, let's keep discussing in the community spaces.
[15:12] Dash does have a good model. It's in my top ten.
[15:12] having the burn go to a dev fund is absolute garbage
[15:12] These dev chats should be more target than broad general discussions — changing the entire nature of the coin and it’s economics is best discussed in the RIPs or other means
[15:13] <@wolfsokta> Yup, let's move on.
[15:13] just becuase existing implementation are garbage doesnt mean that all possible future governance options are garbage
[15:13] <@wolfsokta> To discussing the website scenario mentioned by under.
[15:13] the website needs work. would be best if it could be migrated to github as well.
[15:13] What about this: Anyone can issue a vote once the voting feature has been added, for a cost. The vote would be what the coins could be used for.
[15:14] features for the site that need work are more user friendly links to binaries
[15:14] <@wolfsokta> We investigated how bitcoin has their website in Github to make it easy for contributors to jump in.
[15:14] that means active maintenance of the site instead of its current static nature
[15:15] <@wolfsokta> I really like how it's static html, which makes it super simple to host/make changes.
[15:15] the static nature isn’t due to interface it’s due to no contributors
[15:15] no contribution mechanism has been offered
[15:15] github hosted would allow that
[15:16] We used to run the Bitcoin website from the foundation & the GitHub integration seemed to cause some issues
[15:16] its doesnt necessarily have to be hosted by github but the page source should be on github and contributions could easily be managed and tracked
[15:17] for example when a new release is dropped, the ability for the downlaods section to have platform specific easy links to the general installers is far better for general adoption than pointing users to github releases
[15:18] <@wolfsokta> How do people currently contribute to the existing website?
[15:18] they dont?
[15:18] We did that and it was a complete pain to host and keep working — if someone wants to volunteer to do that work hey can surely make the website better and continually updated — but they could do that in Wordpress also
[15:19] I’d say keep an eye out for volunteers and maybe we can get a group together who can improve the site
[15:19] == digitalvap0r-xmr [[email protected]/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.67.255.25.134] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[15:19] And they can decide best method
[15:20] I host the source for the explorer on github and anyone can spin it up instantly on a basic aws node. changes can be made to interface etc, and allow for multilingual translations which have been offered by some community members
[15:20] there are models that work. just saying it should be looked at
[15:20] i gotta run thank you all for your contributions
[15:20] <@wolfsokta> I feel we should explore the source for the website being hosted in GitHub and discuss in our next dev meeting.
[15:21] <@Chatturga> Thanks Under!
[15:21] == under [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.72.200.168.56] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
[15:21] <@wolfsokta> Thanks, we also need to drop soon.
[15:21] There is no official site so why care. Someone will do better than the next if RVN is worth it anyway. That's already the case.
[15:21] <@wolfsokta> Let's do 10 mins of open Q&A
[15:22] <@wolfsokta> Go...
[15:23] <@Chatturga> Beuller?
[15:24] No questions ... just a comment that the devs and community are great and I'm happy to be a part of it
[15:24] I think everyone moved to discord. I'll throw this out there. How confident is the dev team that things will be ready for oct 31st?
[15:24] <@wolfsokta> Alright! Thanks everybody for joining us today. Let's plan to get back together as a dev group in a couple of weeks.
[15:25] thanks block!
[15:25] <@wolfsokta> Urgo, very confident
[15:25] Please exclude trolls from discord who havent read the whitepaper
[15:25] great :)
[15:25] "things" will be ready..
[15:25] Next time on discord right?
[15:25] woah why discord?
[15:25] some of the suggestions here are horrid
[15:25] this is better less point
[15:25] == blondfrogs [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.185.245.87.219] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
[15:25] Assets are working well on testnet. Plan is to get as much as we can safely test by Sept 30 -- this includes dev contributions. Oct will be heavy testing and making sure it is safe.
[15:26] people
[15:26] <@wolfsokta> Planning on same time, same IRC channel.
[15:26] == BW_ [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.138.68.243.202] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
[15:26] @xmr any in particular?
[15:27] (or is "here" discord?)
[15:27] Cheers - Tron
[15:27] "Cheers - Tron" - Tron
submitted by Chatturga to Ravencoin [link] [comments]

"There is no possibility of not 'forking.' In fact a chain fork (hashpower referendum) happens at every block. Merely because the referendum has voted in the incumbent ruleset a great many times in a row does not imply a referendum (chain fork) is not happening every block." ~ u/ForkiusMaximus

https://np.reddit.com/btc/comments/68ju8a/utempatroy_uadam3us_unullc_ulukejr_dont_even/dgz7u1r
https://np.reddit.com/btc/comments/41lpisegwit_economics/cz3cazb/
Bitcoin, as a creature of the market, should be hard forking on a regular basis, because a hard fork is the only time the market gets an opportunity to express its will in anything other than a binary YES/NO fashion. That is, without a hard fork, the market only can push the price up or down, but with a hard fork it can actually select Option A over Option B. It can even assign a relative weighting to those options, especially if coins in the two sides of the fork are allowed to be bought and sold in advance by proxy through futures trading on exchanges (e.g., Bitfinex would let you buy futures in CoreCoins and/or ClassicCoins so that the matter could be resolved before the fork even happens, with the legendary accuracy of a prediction market).
Anything controversial, on which many reasonable people are in disagreement, is the perfect time for a hard fork. The idea that controversial hard forks are to be avoided is not only exactly backwards, to even entertain the idea shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how Bitcoin works and calls into question everything else one might say on the subject.
Hard forks are the market speaking. Soft forks on any issues where there is controversy are an attempt to smother the market in its sleep. Core's approach is fundamentally anti-market and against the very open-source ethos Bitcoin was founded on.
EDIT: Looks like Ben Davenport is on the same page as far as "fork arbitrage."
~ u/ForkiusMaximus
https://np.reddit.com/btc/comments/61n9y9/bruce_fenton_core_supporters_if_you_dont_like_it/dffz6g1/
People saying Bitcoin isn't antifragile is a contrarian indicator. Look at how different things are now. People are actually debating the dynamics of a hard fork, fork trading, fork futures, and Core is on the run with them being the ones having to discuss a PoW change. Besides this happening pretty slowly, what more could you ask for? Wasn't this in the cards all along?
Bitcoin will be the first cryptocurrency to dash the illusion of incorruptible leaders and blossom to a truly pluralistic development environment where no one dev or group of devs or foundation has de facto final say over changes. No major altcoin has overcome this yet, as all have their own trusty Gavin-like person or Bitcoin Wizards-like groups that is so far navigating everything well. The transition to fully realized Market Governance is a huge step, fraught with peril, but a necessary prerequisite for reaching trillion-dollar market caps.
~ u/ForkiusMaximus
https://np.reddit.com/btc/comments/4mbmrt/a_sanity_check_appeal_to_greg_co/d3u88jq/
In fairness, Greg and the others have raised one halfway decent point among all the weaseling around: what Classic did was probably the wrong way to get around Core.
Classic framed it as a miner vote, which Greg is calling a coup against "the users." Of course he's trying to bullshit that Core = the community, but there is still a grain of truth left after the BS is washed away. The fact is, Bitcoin doesn't work by miner vote; it works - ultimately - by market vote. The miners should serve as a proxy for that, but due to mining becoming disconnected with nodes (pooled mining) there are indeed like 10 guys who sort of have some possible control over Bitcoin (yes people can just switch pools, but is this the ideal way?).
The rightful remedy to this situation is to put competing forks up to a direct market test: commence fork futures trading on the major Bitcoin exchanges. Investors buy and sell 1MB-BTC futures and 2MB-BTC futures until a clear winner emerges. The market speaks. (And in the unlilely event that no clear winner emerges, the market has expressed its value for a persistent split.) In all cases, hodler purchasing power is unaffected.
Then neither Classic nor any other such fork can be called any kind of coup against the users, by any stretch. The 75% hashpower threshold should be removed. And I don't mean it should be increased to 95%. The blocksize cap in Classic should just be 2MB straight up as a flag day (increase to 2MB at this block...or gradual stepwise increase if prefered).
We have had endless debate because both alternatives were flawed: we should have no miner vote as proxy for a market vote; just a direct market vote. (In the event that the market chooses a persistent split, the minority chain would have to make some hashing and signing tweaks to prevent interference, of course.)
~ u/ForkiusMaximus
submitted by ydtm to btc [link] [comments]

"Saving / Hoarding does not help Bitcoin": FALSE

It's great to spend Bitcoin and to make purchases you would have made using fiat with BTC by converting it first.
Many people beeline that "not spending BTC and saving it harms Bitcoin".
This is false. Saving is a huge factor in economic growth. China has a huge savings rate...the US not nearly as much as we had during our best economic growth years.
Third world countries have almost no savings so the people have a hard time getting ahead...a missed week of work due to illness can mean a week without food and spell total ruin.
From the poorest to the richest people, savings is a key driver of capital expenditures, projects and overall economic growth.
Furthermore, to Bitcoin specifically, it helps the price stabilize and increase, brings up the market cap and overall acceptance etc.
In general, most people need to save more.
Spending is great....but so is saving.
-Bruce Fenton, President and Founder of Atlantic Financial
EDIT: this isn't a grand claim, it's pretty straightforward economic truth which isn't disputed much.
There are many sources such as this article for anyone interested in learning about the relationship between savings rates and economic growth. http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Saving.html
submitted by bruce_fenton to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

List of Buzzwords of the Week in butt space

Complementing the great list of things that were going to save bitcoin, perhaps it would be useful (in the sense of this subreddit) to compile a list of buzzwords that were fashionable at some time in bitcoin space.
Some overlap with that list will be inevitable, but buzzwords are more specific (they must be words or phrases that everybody starts to use where they normally would not be used) and more vague (for example, they may be isssues to be addressed, not necessarily solutions). Here is a small start, [EDIT:] expanded and combined with suggestions from comments
Some day-trader slang/memes, mostly from bitcointalk.org:
submitted by jstolfi to Buttcoin [link] [comments]

Daily news updates

What Is Ethereum? Ethos - https://r.gaby.ai/3988c7f88ebc

EOS Mainnet Launch Stalls Raising Security Concerns -

Charles Hoskinson - https://r.gaby.ai/01386bd6d8e0
Cool source with a visual representation of how money flows in crypto. Charlie Shrem - https://r.gaby.ai/8c19f571e251
Overheard in a chatroom: Forecasting vs predicting Vinny Lingham - https://r.gaby.ai/cee631121c2e
Current 21st Century Online Payment Systems William K. Santiago - https://r.gaby.ai/ac1dd209cbcc
SEC Has Removed 'Stumbling Block' for Ether Futures, Says Cboe President Stacy Herbert - https://r.gaby.ai/1ecfb463472e
Cryptocurrency Pricing and Market Cap Live on TV Riccardo Spagni - https://r.gaby.ai/185c29dc2432
Bitcoin & Ethereum NEWS Marathon w/ Guests and Expert Bruce Fenton - https://r.gaby.ai/6855456e2fe4
Cardano Foundation Newsletter Cardano - https://r.gaby.ai/077e29b11be8
Blockchain Identity Management Market Growing at CAGR of +84% by 2023 Civic - https://r.gaby.ai/d707329bece4
Demystifying Bitcoin Wealth Distribution Andreas M. Antonopoulos - https://r.gaby.ai/99bcfcd754a9
Powered by Gaby.ai
submitted by GabyAI to u/GabyAI [link] [comments]

10/19: Jeff Berwick outlines in the Dollar Vigilante the New Crypto Order including: XBT, ETH, EOS and the US$ debt transfer.

I’ve said it before and I have to say it again. I am shocked at how fast everything is moving.
When we started The Dollar Vigilante in 2010 we only wrote one issue per month and each month I’d have to think quite hard about the important issues to cover. There just wasn’t that much happening on a month to month basis.
Now, I have to literally filter through dozens of important things that have just occurred and try to select a few of them to focus on or this newsletter would be 100+ pages long.
The crypto space has become an entire topic on its own with so much happening that we are looking to bring on even more people onto the TDV team with a focus on cryptos, ICOs and trading. This will likely result in an add-on newsletter to TDV because just covering this space alone is worth 50 pages per month in research and analysis (I’ll briefly mention a number of interesting developments further below though). Stay tuned for more on that.
In the bitcoin space alone, ignoring all the other cryptos & ICOs, so much has occurred in just the last month.
The criminal Chinese government shut down three of the world’s largest exchanges and banned ICOs. JPMorgan has been attacking bitcoin as a fraud - which is laughable coming from that bunch. And the New York Agreement signatories proceeded further with the scheduled SegWit2x hard fork (which Juan Galt will cover in depth in this issue).
You’d think with all that happening and the uncertainty surrounding yet another bitcoin fork it would have seriously hurt the price of bitcoin.
Nope, bitcoin nearly doubled in the last month. Bitcoin just don’t care.
BITCOIN HITS ALL-TIME HIGHS NEAR $6,000
As I write, bitcoin is trading at $5600 after hitting a new all-time high of $5,844.18 on Sunday.
For the last three months I mentioned numerous times that I liked the short term prospects of bitcoin over the entire cryptocurrency space as a whole. And that has turned out to be correct as bitcoin has risen from a low of 37.82% dominance in the sector in June to 54.45% now.
The total market capitalization of all cryptocurrencies excluding bitcoin has fallen from $97 billion at the beginning of September to $79 billion today.
Meanwhile, bitcoin itself currently sits near $94 billion in market cap. It was only one year ago today that bitcoin had a market cap of just over $10 billion meaning it has increased nearly 1,000% in the last year in both market cap and price.
Not a bad year!
I recall many TDV subscribers lamenting how they had missed out on bitcoin after it had skyrocketed to $150 in 2013 after starting the year near $15. I said then that it was definitely not too late to get in.
The same happened after bitcoin surged through $1,000. And, I said the same, “it’s not too late.” When bitcoin hit $3,000 I said the same.
With it now near $6,000 I am telling you it is not too late. Here’s the main reason:
This is a chart of the money supply or value of gold, bitcoin, Chinese yuan, Japanese yen, euro and the US dollar.
You’ll notice one stands out as being miniscule. Bitcoin.
Gold is the next closest to bitcoin with a total value of approximately $7 trillion.
If bitcoin, which many including myself consider to be the digital version of gold were to one day be valued the same as gold it would have to rise 80x to a value, in today’s dollars, of over $450,000.
If bitcoin were ever to supplant the US dollar as a currency it’d have to rise nearly two-fold above that, for nearly $1 million per bitcoin.
Will it ever get there? Well, there is absolutely no way to know. And, if it does, it will take a long while.
Does it have the potential? Yes, absolutely. If we continue to live in a digital world and the fiat currencies of the world’s most indebted and bankrupt companies return to their intrinsic value of $0, then bitcoin would be the frontrunner to become the new world currency even more than gold due to all of its ease of use benefits.
It’s not going to get there without a fight though. And I expect nothing but volatility, crisis and chaos in the years ahead.
But consider the fact that there are only a total of 21 million bitcoins that will ever be available.
Some data shows that there are over 15 million millionaires in the world today. What if each one of them wanted to own just two bitcoins. There wouldn’t be enough.
And what if many of those millionaires begin to realize the entire fiat currency system was on the verge of collapse? The panic buying that would ensue would rise bitcoin, and to a lesser extent gold, to levels so high that sellers would eventually stop accepting fiat currencies whatsoever in exchange for bitcoin.
That’s where we could be headed.
In the meantime, though, with a rise of 1,000% in the last year a sizeable pullback is clearly possible.
Will it happen anytime soon? Truthfully, everything I am seeing says no.
Bitcoin, which once was just known by a few of us crazy people here around The Dollar Vigilante is now talked about at every level of business, banking and politics across the world… and a lot of the conversation is, “How do we get some?”
And, did I mention, the entire cryptocurrency space is moving forward at light speed.
BLOCKCHAIN TECHNOLOGY ERUPTS
Considering I was one of the only people talking about blockchain about three years ago it is incredible to see the speed in which this technology is accelerating.
Russia has flip flopped on bitcoin countless times now and has just announced it will be r eleasing its own CryptoRuble (CR). Of course, it will be nothing like bitcoin as it cannot be mined and will be issued and controlled by the Russian mafia (government). CR can be exchanged for regular Rubles at any time — however, if the holder is unable to explain the origin of the CR then a 13% extortion tax will be levied.
China may be following in Russia’s footsteps as the Director of the Digital Currency Research Institute under the People’s Bank of China hinted towards the creation of a state-backed cryptocurrency.
I expect most fiat currencies to become digital over time which will make most people accustomed to using digital currencies… from there it is only a click away to trade in or out of bitcoin and the myriad of other decentralized cryptocurrencies.
Coinshares, the issuer behind the world’s first Bitcoin Exchange Traded Note (ETN), has announced that they will be launching the world’s first Ether ETN on the Nasdaq Stockholm.
The Dubai Land Department — the government arm responsible for the registration and organization of real estate in the emirate — is now processing and implementing all real estate transactions on a blockchain, with the ultimate goal to have all Dubai properties recorded on a blockchain within the next 2-3 years.
This is one area in which I have no trouble with the government using blockchain technology: in the recording of property rights and activities. It will, over time, make government unnecessary in such activities and will enable the economy to transact with more trust and less expense in the form of lawyers.
Vitalik Buterin, the founder of Ethereum, has confirmed that 63% of central banks are working with Ethereum. Moreover, 44% of public institutions and 50,000 developers are building applications on the platform.
IBM has announced a partnership with Stellar Lumens , a blockchain-based payment processing company, to move money across borders throughout the South Pacific. Merchants and consumers will be able to send money to another country in near real-time, accelerating a payments process that typically takes days.
IBM hopes to use the blockchain network to process up to 60% of all cross-border payments in the South Pacific’s retail foreign exchange corridors by early 2018. The Stellar Lumens coin appreciated 150% after the announcement.
Basecoin, a form of stable coin, has attracted investment from some of Silicon Valley’s largest funds including 1confirmation, Andreessen Horowitz, Bain Capital Ventures, Digital Currency Group, MetaStable Capital, Pantera Capital and PolyChain Capital.
Basecoin is lauded by investors for its unique approach to what's been called the "holy grail" of cryptocurrency – a digital asset able to keep its value free from volatility. The basecoin protocol can be pegged to the value of any asset or basket of assets, dynamically adjusting its market price through the creative use of a combination of tokens.
Grid+, the blockchain-based company aiming to provide consumers with direct access to wholesale energy markets, has partnered with Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO), Japan’s largest energy utility.
TEPCO aims to leverage its partnership to learn about the potential benefits of Ethereum for decentralizing the exchange of energy, while Grid+ hopes to learn how to refine its algorithms to purchase cheaper energy.
Winding Tree, a decentralized market for travel booking, has announced a partnership with Lufthansa, the largest German airline. The Winding Tree ICO starts on November 1.
And, Overstock CEO Patrick Byrne has confirmed that his security token exchange, tZERO, will be pursuing an ICO sometime before Thanksgiving. Byrne suggested that the ICO could raise as much as $500m, which would be double the record for an ICO raise.
I interviewed Patrick Byrne on Anarchast last month. You can see that here.
And, Vanuatu this month announced that it will accept bitcoin in exchange for citizenship— 44 bitcoin to be exact .
And we barely mentioned any of the ICO news. That’s a whole other area on its own.
I wanted to post this chart, though, of the main ICO’s return to date.
As can be seen, buying a small amount of certain ICOs, which have had returns of 10x, 100x and even 1,000x can be very profitable but you do need to be careful.
We’ll continue to cover them here and are increasing our research and analysis resources dramatically to do so.
UPDATE ON EOS
Speaking of ICOs we have had a rough start with EOS which unfortunately, at the moment, is on the right side (loss side) of the above chart.
Many subscribers asked me to interview Dan Larimer again and, as I always try to do, I obliged.
This interview is exclusive to subscribers for the next 48 hours and then we will put it live to the public.
Here is the video .
*This video was also livestreamed on the TDV subscribers only Facebook Group here . Due to many things happening so quickly we don’t have time to even email out alerts like this but try to post if we can in the FB group. I realize some people don’t like FBIbook for obvious reasons but even just having a sock (fake) account set-up to access the group gets you access to a lot of valuable realtime info.
To summarize, Dan believes the drop in the price of EOS isn’t due to their long ICO period but mostly attributable to the Chinese ban on ICOs. According to Dan, 50% of buying was coming from China.
I’ve seen a number of people on the internet and even amongst subscribers questioning EOS. That is fairly normal.
I was one of the only people in the world lauding bitcoin at $3 in 2011 and still to this day people say it is a scam, a ponzi scheme or a fraud. I obviously stopped listening to them a long time ago.
When I first featured Ethereum in January 2016 near $2 there was a lot of criticism… and while it did rise to the $10 level fairly quickly afterwards it plateaued there for nearly a year bringing out a lot of catcalls about how it was dead.
It wasn’t.
So, with EOS, it has gotten off to a rocky start but it is also very early stage… and I have said that. However, by the time it is launched in June the price will likely be dramatically higher. So, you can wait and pay more later when the world realizes what a huge advance it is or you can get in early and take a few lumps waiting for the market to realize its value.
Dan Larimer outlined a lot of good information on EOS in our interview but afterwards, off the record, he went into detail on many of the projects they are working on… and I can tell you, they have ‘world changing” written all over them.
The market doesn’t know or realize a lot of it. And EOS has an absolutely massive bankroll, in the hundreds of millions of dollars, to bring all their projects (which are all related to or linked with EOS) to market.
And Dan has an amazing vision. He understands what the market needs and wants - which is often a downfall of most techies - and knows how to get there.
He announced this week in the official Telegram channel that EOS will be the first blockchain with unprecedented sub-second block times of 500 milliseconds and sub-second last irreversible block (LIB) providing finality. In other words, the time between a user sending a transaction or a command and being included in the blockchain could be consistently under a second compared to 10 minutes on Bitcoin.
So, with a market capitalization of $400 million currently - and a bankroll of almost the same amount - to me this is a no brainer lottery ticket.
Sure, like any new product it may fail. But, it may also succeed… and has a good chance of doing so in my opinion. And, if it does, we’ll laugh at how cheap it currently is for the opportunity.
In other words, stick with it and if you bought earlier at higher levels look to average down.
SUMMING UP THE CRYPTO SPACE
Like I said, A LOT is going on in the crypto space. It isn’t going to go away overnight no matter how many times Peter Schiff says it will.
Make sure to stick with us here at The Dollar Vigilante, the only financial newsletter in the world that has covered bitcoin and cryptos since 2011. Still to this day most financial newsletters don’t even cover this space… or even avoid it.
Their, and their subscribers, loss. Keep this in mind with bitcoin, too. Since bitcoin was launched in 2009 it has actually been in a near-state of hyperinflation… a type of hyperinflation that was necessary in order to widely distribute the coins. That time of high inflation is nearly over just as quite a large part of the world is just waking up to bitcoin.
What happens when increased demand meets decreasing supply? I think we all know the answer to that basic economics question.
OTHER EVENTS
So many other things have happened in the last two weeks but we only have so much time and mindspace to cover it all.
I didn’t even touch on what was quite obviously a false flag in Las Vegas. All the typical 9/11 type scenarios have occurred along with a storyline from the LameStream Media and the government that make zero sense.
Insiders sold stock of MGM prior to the event? Check .
A surge in buying in ammunition starting on 9/11 leading up to the event? Check.
Eyewitness to multiple shooters dead? Check .
Predictive programming? Check… as I’ll outline here.
It is well known by many that Hollywood and the music industry are largely controlled by elites. In fact it also well known that many popular stars are used for predictive programming purposes to influence the opinions of the masses.
It appears as if country singer Jason Aldean is one of these celebrities that is being used to convey subliminal messages along with others.
As we have come to learn, many of the nefarious plots that are planned by elites are planned decades in advance if not scores of years. With that in mind, there exists an Illuminati card game that contains a “Las Vegas” card. On this card are depicted a jack and ace, something you might see in a game of black jack, along with a picture of a sun.
The game created in 1996 has predicted multiple false flags and operations carried out by the elite including the Pentagon blowing up and 9/11.
In blackjack, the jack has the value “10” the ace has the value 1 or 11. In this case, it appears the symbology used on this card is conveying that the value of this ace is “1” - A is the first letter of the alphabet and in numerology - which the elites strongly believe in - it has the value “1”.
So when you put the two values together you end up with 10/1 - the same day the Las Vegas shooting occurred. Coincidence?
Well, if that was all coincidence, which it very likely wasn’t, what’s more, is that Jason Aldean has a nearly identical tattoo that depicts a jack and ace plus his initials are also “JA” the same exact letters. Also, Aldean has a picture of a black sun in the same tattoo. Likewise, sun symbology is heavily used on Jason’s website and album cover artwork.
As many of our enlightened readers probably know, the sun is worshiped by many secret societies, perhaps most famously, the freemasons.
Remember, this game has existed for more than 20 years. So, the Las Vegas shooting has probably been years in the making.
Just take a look at what went on with MK Ultra and the history of such government operations such as Project Mockingbird. This kind of manipulation has been going on for a long time.
Another one of Jason’s tattoos is a black cross depicting a red star - a pentagram - in the center of it.
And as many people know, many of the Illuminati elites worship satan or have Luciferian beliefs of some kind.
And, I didn’t even mention the location of the event, right in front of the giant black pyramid and numerous occult symbology… I get into this in a soon to be released Anarchast episode with Mark Passio.
Just remember nothing happens by accident.
Same ol’, same ol’.
If there is one heartening thing I’ve noticed is that a lot more people are questioning these events. Ten years ago when I was adamant that 9/11 was an inside job false flag death ritual most people thought I was crazy. Now, many agree.
And now, many are questioning these events… a positive in my opinion.
CONCLUSION
What will occur in the next two weeks prior to our next issue? I think it’s a safe bet to say “lots”.
So far we have made it through September and halfway through October with no market crash. As I write the Dow we just crossed 23,000.
The number 23 is quite an occult number . Could the powers behind the scene be targeting 23,000 before a planned crash?
We’ll have to wait and see. As you’ll see below, though, Ed Bugos is not giving up on “the big short.”
I’ll be in Austin for the Texas Bitcoin Conference on October 28th and 29th. You can get a discount to the conference by using the code “Anarchast”. And then I’ll be going to Lisbon, Portugal for Steemfest from November 1st to 5th.
And, of course, don’t forget about Anarchapulco from February 15-17th, then Cryptopulco on February 18th and the TDV Internationalization & Investment Summit on February 19th!
For those mostly interested in cryptocurrency, finance and investment, Cryptopulco and the TDV Summit the next day are the events to go to.
You can check out the websites to see all the amazing speakers lined up including Trace Mayer, Roger Ver, Bruce Fenton, Dan Larimer and many, many others.
And, unlike many other conferences most of the speakers will be around the entire week, and often poolside, where you can casually chat. That also includes myself, Ed Bugos, Juan Galt, Luis Fernando Mises and the rest of the team from TDV.
Phew. So much going on… but we are happy to be one of your trusted sources to help you survive and prosper through it all.
Thank you for that! And thank you for subscribing!
Jeff Berwick
submitted by 2012ronpaul2012 to conspiracy [link] [comments]

[uncensored-r/Bitcoin] Stuck In the middle (BTC/BCH) looking for a reason. Push me over the edge.

The following post by dsp496 is being replicated because the post has been silently removed and some comments within it have been silently removed.
The original post can be found(in censored form) at this link:
np.reddit.com/ Bitcoin/comments/7lttye
The original post's content was as follows:
I think I want to cast my vote on BCH and sell it. But the issue I have is their is some merit to the argument.
The price run up tells you their is some belief there. Even if it is not massive volumn allot of us have not acted. As a group we could drive that price to zero.
Transaction Fees seem high. Solutions seem weak.
Personal Story: The other day my son was pestering me for some bitcoin as the mania has everyones attention, so I logged into coinbase to buy a few bits and found what was basicly dust before turned in to about a pay day of $ (had not been in for a long time) so I gave him $50. To spend on steam games. The price was all over hell so he started speculating about waiting to spend. Good lesson I thought. lol :)
But here is the rub he got burned for a $10 Fee on a $15 game and steam disabled the day after. He is 10 and annoyed as am I. What do I tell him wait 2 years and this lightning thing will all work out and we can use this. Or This is a store of wealth. It kinda became usless to him at the time he got it. I kinda feel as though this was not what I signed up for.
You all told me I can spend bitcoin for minimal fees and teleport money around the world at an instant. The big market was going to be remittances.
I get keeping the blocksize small has merit too but how is it that it can't keep pace with moore's law? Seems to me we are due for atleast some kind of increase if only to take the bite out of bcash.
I also see other guys Like Erik Voorhees, and Bruce Fenton Posting similar sentiment on twitter.
Richard Heart makes a hell of an argument about what a piece of shit bcash is.
But the reality is you can buy 1TB for $99. These days.
Im no shill either I have been following bitcoin since the little squirl from Night at the Roxbury was pumping it and got screwed by mybitcoin. lol dwolla mtgox etc.
submitted by censorship_notifier to noncensored_bitcoin [link] [comments]

An investment client asked about Bitcoin, here is my memo response

What are Bitcoin, How do Bitcoins Work and Why Should We Care? November 24, 2013
Below is an actual email I sent to one of my top clients, who is a global business leader, when we were discussing Bitcoin today.
— I’ve removed any confidential information and I think the content makes for a decent and informative article about how Bitcoins work.
[I realize some technical details -- such as Bitcoin mining-- are not fully explained - this was because I wrote this for a specific person based on the style that person prefers.]
Hi ____,
(Excuse the long note, it will answer the questions you asked and also fully equip you for cocktail /water cooler conversations which I GUARANTEE will come up!)
Bitcoin works by allowing direct transfer of money/ coins peer to peer anywhere in the world…the rational for the price increase is due to supply and demand and increasing signs of this being a real and viable thing.
It’s fascinating.
HOW A very complex computer program on a shared network creates (to be mined) the digital “coins”which are basically a series of numbers….each one is unique.
WHAT These digital coins can be easily transferred, converted to USD, EUR, CNY or used to purchase tens of thousands of goods online. (Every major hacker and academic has attempted to counterfeit, hack or find flaws and numerous papers have been written which say it won’t likely happen due to the way the code is written and open source and other details.)
This has created a completely decentralized global currency instantly transferable and untrackable.
The idea of digital currency came about in the 80s — five years ago Bitcoins started — at first very experimental with tech geeks buying pizzas etc and traded at around .22 then a dollar each.
RISE IN VALUE When Cyprus collapsed, Bitcoin had it’s first major surge as it was seen by some as a gold-like alternative but with easy transport across borders. It was also seen as a black market facilitator due to its decentralized nature with underground goods reaching hundreds of millions in sales.
WINKLEVOSS Shortly afterwards, the Winklevoss twins (VCs and Facebook lawsuit winners) bought about $90 million worth or 1% of Bitcoin. Winklevoss targets a $400B market cap for Bitcoin (from $7-9b today) (someone else appears to have bought $150 mm worth this week, it’s unknown who)
CHINA / BAIDU As the price reached $100 and $200, China became interested — it’s in the news there daily now.
The massive Chinese state internet company Baidu announced they will accept Bitcoin as a form of payment. It’s unlikely Baidu would do this without the tacit approval of the Chinese government (who also knows this is a slight toward the USD which is not overt)
US Senate hearings this month were surprisingly favorable and unlikely to lead to attempts at heavy-handed regulation. (Which is logistically nearly impossible given the de-centralized nature, you would have to shut down the internet to stop it entirely)
The China interest and US hearings brought Bitcoin past the $700-800 mark in very volatile trading. (Mkt cap of 7-9 billion USD)
ACCESS /DEMAND There is only one major exchange in the US – called MtGox — it is plagued by delays from tens of thousands of applications for new accounts….just processing wires takes a week or more and an AML check takes 30 days due to backlog.
The main broke exchange in China received an investment from Lightspeed Venture Partners and China is getting something like 60,000 inquiries a day.
WHY I think Bitcoin is transformative for a few reasons:
Almost a year ago I had a conversation about Bitcoin with —-deleted——- [a leading Venture Capitalist. Basically he's interested in the space, we are looking for ways to participate]
Since then, especially based on China, I’ve become more convinced.
We are talking about global access now….. when else have Chinese citizens and EU and US been able to buy the same investment on the same platform? We know the significance of Chinese savings and interest in non fiat currency….as well as the transformative power of decentralized collaborative networks….as well as the risks in conventional global fiat currency.
Clearly if we talk in terms of it replacing even a tiny fraction of real global currency it is a huge deal…..too much in the air for that, but I think access and interest alone can bring it to a value somewhere around AAPL or the $400B the Winkelvoss twins target….this is still a small drop compared to real currency numbers but would place Bitcoin at $30-40,000 per coin.
Risks are high, it is very volatile….one article shared at [major firm] says it will be back down to $250 by months end. It can return to thin air and head back down to a penny. I thought government regulation was the largest risk but the Senate has missed that boat…unless some major event creates a compelling national need, they are unlikely to try now…toothpaste is out of the tube. So now the biggest risk is whether this is real or not….this is why China and Virgin etc. are significant.
[deleted specific recommendations particular to this person etc.]
Let me know if you want me to look at ____ XYZ – we should participate.
That’s my two cents worth! (Or .00000023 Bitcoin worth)
-Bruce
Bruce Fenton President and Managing Director, Atlantic Financial Inc.
W
submitted by Arabiansands to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Cypherpunks and Ravencoin, with Bruce Fenton FACE Interview 11.12.2019 $BTCUSD Bruce calls Bitcoin an Invention&to him,a holder,it's a binary bet Bitcoin and asset allocation tips Decentral Talk Live Ep #72: Bruce Fenton of Bitcoin Foundation Bitcoin Will See $10K This Week

• Bruce Fenton is definitely a distinct personality in the Bitcoin space. After working as a stock market broker for about two decades, he chose to walk. 13.9 C. Amsterdam. 20 October 2020. Home; News. News. Founder of DeFi’s Yearn.finance (YFI) just launched another… 20 October 2020. News. BestChange.Com: Over 250+ Exchanges To Select The Best… 20 October 2020. News. Massive Prize ... Video: Bruce Fenton on the Bitcoin Foundation, Satoshi Roundtable and Scaling Bruce Fenton is without a doubt a definite character within the Bitcoin house. After operating as a inventory marketplace dealer for approximately 20 years, he selected to stroll clear of his Wall Side road occupation and take a jump of religion with Bitcoin. Bruce Fenton is a bitcoin advocate, investor and financial consultant who has been involved in the blockchain industry since 2012. Bitcoin Price Comparison; General Bitcoin Curriculum. Bitcoin Core IRC Meeetings; Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency Technologies (Princeton Textbook) Udemy Bitcoin Course (8+ hours of Video Tutorials & Lessons) Khan Academy: Bitcoin (Short & Medium length Video Lessons) Bitcoin Wiki ; Books on Bitcoin; How the Bitcoin Protocol Actually Works; A Peak Under Bitcoin’s Hood; Video Resources. The Future ... Veteran bitcoin activist Bruce Fenton has been named the Bitcoin Foundation’s newest executive director. Elected by a 5-to-1 vote, Fenton succeeds interim executive director Patrick Murck and ...

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Cypherpunks and Ravencoin, with Bruce Fenton

Bruce Fenton and Tron Black are co-writers of the Ravencoin white paper. Tron is also the lead developer of the project. In this interview we go over the general structure and some details about ... Bruce Fenton 509 views. 11:36. Plan₿ on Bitcoin’s Stock to Flow - Duration: 57:33. What Bitcoin Did 12,328 views. 57:33. HOW TO to Prepare for Recession WHAT HAPPENS TO BITCOIN in a ... Bruce Fenton and I caught up for my series, ‘What Is Blockchain?’ while we were at Porcfest. We talk about the origins of crypto currency in the cypherpunk movement, and the project that he is ... Bruce Fenton Asks: Why Be So Afraid Of Securities? - Duration: 11:00. BLOCKTV NEWS 60 views. New; 11:00. BREAKING! JAPAN & USA COLLABORATION to BEAT China's E-Yuan! Ethereum to 10k minimum + SEC ... Interview with Bruce Fenton about the hype problem in the bitcoin community, being realistic about Bitcoin's future, and the future of the conference circuit. This episode was recorded at the 2015 ...

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